Author Topic: State of the DLC  (Read 49963 times)

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Offline Seraphna

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2016, 02:24:27 AM »
The DLC was promised to Kickstarter backers, moving them to standalone will not change this promise. So please don't disagree if your concern is whether or not as a backer you'll be getting a key. You will. It's going to be what was promised, just delivered in a better (read: stable) package.

Offline Plom510

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2016, 02:26:23 AM »
I would like to see Spade get an Adventure mode if he were to be implemented. It just wouldn't feel right if every character but Spade has an Adventure mode in my honest opinion. Besides, I'm one who enjoys Freedom Planet's story and would like to see what Spade's perspective is on the game's events.
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Offline Creepario

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2016, 06:47:40 AM »
Yeah, for me both Torque and Spade play very good, so Torque in Adventure and Classic and Spade in Classic is a good idea. Also i don't have a problem with seperate "games" for them (so Strife could clean up FP and put both Spade's and Torque's assets into the new ones maybe) and if you would install these, you would need FP installed or something.

Offline Raxz

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2016, 08:44:12 AM »
I'm just going to chime in with all the people saying Torque plays fine as is, even platforming wise. I've actually been hoping this whole time that not all of his exclusive stages are shmups.

Offline swampselkie

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2016, 12:01:56 PM »
Personally, I won't mind if all we get of Spade is the showdown with Dail as his only canonical material. I just want to see how that scene/stage plays out - I don't mind so much about the rest of his game.

I really enjoyed the different feel Torque's gameplay brought to the existing stages, and while I can totally appreciate that he's likely to play more smoothly in stages tailored to his style, I don't believe that's necessarily a big deal. It even has some thematic justification - as someone from another planet, Torque might find Horizon Starport well-suited to his abilities but then become a little clumsier in the unfamiliar terrain of Avalice.

Offline Eltro

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2016, 12:18:48 PM »
To be honest, if I were to limit myself to just a game's story, I'd be limiting the number of games in my personal library. One would finish a game once and never touch it again, but the same happens with story centric games.

I'm neutral about Spade not having an Adventure Mode. On one side, I just want to play him, but on the other hand, it frustrates me not understanding why Spade is portrayed the way he is in the perspective of the other characters.
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Offline Treya

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2016, 12:37:47 PM »
I'm one who would like to see his story mode to get a better idea of how Spade actually is. I know what most of Torques scenes are going to be like, the same can't be said for the other.

Though Classic can come out first.

I admit, I'm biased for voice acted cutscenes though. I can't resist his smooth voice...
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Offline Ashema_Bahumat

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2016, 01:08:12 PM »
Saw this coming from a mile away, lol. I mean, it was kinda obvious you guys had FP1 on stun. I'm glad, too, cuz that means FP2 progressed way faster than what most were initially thinking. Better yet, the possibility of a new game for Torque and Spade just fills me with glee, lol. Having them available in time attack and have a pseudo-classic mode with stages they can already complete would also be nice if its going on stun, too(just a rogue idea). Tho, this does propose an issue: how the fuck am I supposed to pay for the second game and FP2 if I don't have the muns(kappa)? O, btw @Strife , take a break if you need it. I can only assume that you've been putting a lot of work into both games with little downtime. Even working machines need to go on standby every now and then :V
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 01:12:17 PM by Ashema_Bahumat »


Did you just say Casual Smash?

Offline jerrytown

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2016, 02:47:18 PM »
I'd like the idea for standalone game if it can bring better quality,and I am willing to wait for it as well.

It's also surprise me that you would abandon the idea if it's not for backers,working on something you no longer had interesting in is a torture.So take your time if you don't really in mood when making expansion content,

As for Spade's story mode,while most people doesn't too fond of him.I don't think his story mode should be cancelled.He is the only one playable character that is anti-hero(villian),and all we know about him is he hates Carol and Lilac in the heroes story. Isn't it interesting to see his other side when his not face heroes?
And isn't his story mode also a stretch goal for kickstater backers

One last question is:If the idea of standalone game has been realized,will they make it to other platform other than PC?

Offline Eltro

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2016, 03:50:08 PM »
It's very likely that Spade's side of the story won't make him look like the villain he was portrayed as in the other characters. Since Lilac and Carol don't see Spade as often, we don't know what he's doing exactly off screen, and we might finally sympathize once we see his perspective. Plus, Spade's final boss is Dail, the same guy who you face twice when playing as the other four.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2016, 03:51:06 PM by Eltro93 »
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Offline WhiteLilyDragon

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2016, 04:40:07 PM »
One last question is:If the idea of standalone game has been realized,will they make it to other platform other than PC?

That's one of the reasons Strife wants to make them standalone games, so there's no back-and-forth porting the DLC with MP2's involvement. Any other middleware besides MMF2 is insanely much more portable, like Unity. (Which Freedom Planet 2 is using, so a stand alone game might be made with that instead of Fusion.)

To be honest, if I were to limit myself to just a game's story, I'd be limiting the number of games in my personal library. One would finish a game once and never touch it again, but the same happens with story centric games.

I love story-centric games, although even I only play them once the urge hits me. So for as much of a Zelda fan as I am, I only play one of the games when I feel strongly about experiencing them again. It's most certainly not because I enjoy solving the same puzzles over and over again.

However, in Freedom Planet's case, the platforming is so fun, that I keep playing the levels in-between the times where I want to experience the story again. For instance, despite playing the stages on a daily basis, I haven't touched Adventure Mode in a year, save to see what new cutscenes were recently introduced for Milla's finished adventure.
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Offline Seraphna

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #26 on: June 08, 2016, 11:49:09 AM »
Yeah, as a note, if we went with modular games, we could make the games using Unity which would mean much, much easier porting to various consoles.

Offline r543

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2016, 03:16:07 PM »
Of course I have something else I wanted to talk about instead - the DLC for Freedom Planet 1.
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The bad news? At this point, Freedom Planet's engine is in a state where I worry about what adding extra content would do to the original experience. With that in mind, I have an idea I wanted to run by the Kickstarter backers who may be floating around here.
I take you're talking about "breaking old content" just like what happened with the updates before and not the "they will feel alienlike" ?
While certain people might say that those kickstarter goals are for backers only, I disagree with that and haven't found any information on Kickstarter's site about this, so unless someone links me that I won't believe this and think that everyone who owns this game should be able to tell their opinion, not that many active backers are left on the forums anyways. Even if the above mentioned point should be proven true, it was said that everyone will get the DLC content, so they should still have the right to talk about this.
Of course you can't please every fan, but I think they have a right to say and have their opinion heard as well.

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I am considering breaking off the DLC characters into their own standalone games that are more simplistic than Freedom Planet but better suited for their unique abilities and story perspective. There's a couple reasons for this.
I'd prefer if they were part of the main game just like they were supposed to, both characters play an important role in the story. This is just my personal thought but I was hoping that the characters give us different views of the story, so you see what was all going on in Spade's side, how Torque did things and how Milla first got to Brevon.
This worked more or less with Lilac and Carol, Milla's storymode was sadly a bit disappointing in that, having an alternate timeline for a story that could've been linked to the main one without much trouble(if you still want to do that without scrapping or adding many things, check the Milla story mode threads, made a small suggestion on that a long time ago, which makes Brevon appear in the middle of FD3's final room, taking her out with one hit and making her unconscious, after that Milla wakes up and sees Torque together with Carol(from there it all plays until the end, this "alternate timeline" gets turned into a dream, until the final boss where Milla wakes up after defeating Brevon, in the tent just like in the normal ending).

I don't exactly know what you would do with more simplistic standalone games, would you try to recreate FP(in a more simplified version, basically porting over levels(which would maybe need to be remade?)) or create a completely new game with Torque and Spade? I feel like I can't properly judge on this before I know more information about it.

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The first reason is that our initial contract with MP2 Games has been fulfilled, so if we want to update the game any further from this point, we'll need create a new contract which involves paying out extra money. It makes sense of course; MP2 has moved on to other projects and they need to be fairly compensated for taking up extra time to come back and help us. It does of course bring an economic factor into all of this which complicates my ability to keep adding content to FP1.
I honestly can't say anything but "see, told ya", I already questioned the decisions of doing a port of a unfinished game and sent you my concerns about this in PM. In short, I would've done the porting at the end after the game's definitely finished or only getting a few little patches, here's the differences between the two versions:

Ports after finishing the game
+Less cost, there might be more bugs to patch(bigger content), however you only need to do it once and are done after that
+versions are all at same level, the wiiU version isn't months behind the PC one, they all are finished and on the same release, so you won't be having content or bugs that other platforms have.

-console users have to wait until the game is finished, this also means possibly less advertising(you can't tell people on PAX 2015 that your game is on the WiiU and have to wait many years, which might result in lower sales, also having it released last means that you can't have news(which bring back players/potential new customers), other than sequels and possible bugfixes))

Ports while the game is in development(what Strife did)
+Game can be advertised more, since it's already on consoles, fans thinking "if this was only on the WiiU" can instantly get it, instead of possibly forgetting about it later, resulting in a possiblity of higher sales.

-updates for multiple platforms & higher cost if it goes on for a long time, this won't be an issue if you release one or two versions before the final content, but if you keep doing new updates(like FP's been doing, also don't forget that the desktop version is also running a "port") you will have to do multiple updates(which all have the possiblity of having a new bug since something was changed), resulting in a higher total cost. Also you have to do each of those updates for each different platform, further increasing the time and giving the possiblity of a platform staying behind.

Apparently, game advertising(getting it on multiple platforms(because a lot of fans want to have a game on console with PC not being an option, even if said game had low requirements)

This also shows why Services or Leasing aren't great, why am I mentioning this? Well everywhere I see mentioned on how Services are the best thing ever, yet people seem to fail to realize what the issues are with them and how you relie on them, how are you going to do stuff without them?
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The second reason is that I'm not happy with how Torque plays in the existing stages. He feels wonderful in his intro stage because it's designed specifically for his abilities and weapons, but he feels unwieldy elsewhere. This is one of the reasons why I planned for him to have a lot more schmup segments than the other characters, but that doesn't mask the less-than-ideal experience of his platforming stages. It's less of a problem for Spade but he still has a few trouble spots, and I would also have to give him new bosses in many of the existing stages since it doesn't make sense for him to have to fight some of them.
As a guy that has hacked the game and played the incomplete "Gunstar Heroes" Torque, I can only say how much better he played, his damage might not have been too strong, but you had more HP, the ability to get different weapon combos(not fully implemented) and no ammo issues either, the slow glide(which made some levels unbeatable, would've needed an addional move) and very fast dash(instantly sent you to max speed, was on a seperate button) gave you the mobility and extra aim needed to hit the bosses, and that's saying something as the projectiles of Gunstar Torque were way smaller.

As for new Torque, I think it's mostly the damage which makes Horizon Starport(I've allowed myself to take a preview at your work, saw both versions, the earlier(which is now the second half) and later one included in the Torque betas), I really hope that it is the damage and not the gimmicks(which are the other big thing about this stage), because any character could be put into this bouncing sphere. I've made a suggestion about the damage buffs in the Torque thread some time ago, this suggestion was done wit h a deep game analysis on enemy health and "damage frames", so it's not something thrown together in 5 minutes by a random fan.

Spade mostly has trouble linking the Story, he has been a character that's been available for ages(even back in Beta 1 where the Story was going to be a bit different), and his gameplay has been set into stone ever since the 1.6.10 beta, later, when you made the game reboot on character select(by the way the old character loop wasn't too bad but not really needed) his damage was nerfed as well as his card meter and height you would gain from the special would be reduced as well, however his moveset still stayed.

From what I see, his stages are basically this:

Aqua Tunnel(his intro stage, secret entrance to Relic Maze)
Relic Maze(most likely the same as Milla given how there's Minecart sprites for him), having the Mantis as boss would work as there are broken pieces from it laying around.
Rage Ravine(way to Fortune Night, we are still getting this stage, right?)
Fortune Night(escaping from Serpentine and fighting him in the end?)
Sky Battalion(probably jumps up to one of Dail's ships/little Dail cutscene?) I could imagine him going with dail, then realizing how corrupt he is and deciding to take down his ship(so it more or less works)
Jade Creek?(way back to Trap Hideout)
Trap Hideout(hopefully a new level that shows the front entrance(which in my idea is guarded with a lot of lasers, luckily his dash allows to bypass them, also uses the unused trap hideout music)
Thermal Base(Spade sabotages the base, making it explode)
Battle Glacier
Shuigang Palace(I was hoping for a 4 part stage here much like Final Dreadnought, 1 being the outside of the city, 2 the city, 3 the palace and 4 the final battle)

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Putting the characters into new games would allow me to use a new engine so I wouldn't have to rely on a third party for ports, and I can comfortably switch to text-based dialog so I don't have to worry about the availability of the voice actors. I can also reuse art assets from FP1 to cut down on development time.

Again, this is just something that's been on my mind and I don't know if I'll go through with it yet. It might be better to just keep working with Spade and Torque as FP1 DLC, but I figured I'd put my thoughts out there so that our backers know where things stand right now.

Cheers~

- Stephen
I feel like it wouldn't be the same, after all we were promised Classic and Adventure for Torque in FP1, not having those two characters and their view of the story doesn't feel the same.

Honestly the only thing keeping me going with Spade/Torque at this point is because I was obligated to in the Kickstarter. I realized pretty quickly after I started working on them that it was too ambitious of me to include them as stretch goals, and the time and effort I've put into working on them could have been much better served polishing the experience of the original three characters. If it weren't for their status as stretch goals then I would have stopped working on them much earlier. I can keep going if that's what the Kickstarter backers want me to do, but it will take a long time because I don't want to settle for less than the best that I can do.
That's sad to hear, I remember how energetic you were working on those characters and possibly adding extra ones for fun, like Milla for example, from what I've heard she was originally supposed to be a side character which dies at the end, however because she was made into a playable character(possibly just to see how her different gameplay is), she got way more than that and luckily stayed in the team.

Having worked with Gamemaker before, I know how quickly "drag and drop events" can turn into a big hard to manage list(as far as I know most of fusion is done that way?), the fact that the object behaviours in fusion have to be defined for each room doesn't help much with that either:

In multimedia fusion, if you create a object, let's say a bullet that has the speed of 5, you need to say that it has the speed of 5(basically all of it's coding) for every room, the title screen, every level and all those fade out/ins are different rooms. You can set a object to global(so you don't need to do all this, however having too many global objects will cause performance drops).

However it makes me wonder why you announced those goals as you've been doing games before(such as Fable Quest, Spectrum Chase/Time Heroes and more, I remember that one RPG where you ended up having so much rooms that it caused a bit of trouble for fusion to load all of them, man those must've been the times) and knew that those problems would be happening with MMF2, also wouldn't those chowdren/porting problems have been an issue if Torque/Spade were (mostly) finished before the ports were beginning?

Also seeing how you are needed in FP2 for a lot of decisions, brings up the question why starting the development of the second game before the first one is finished is a good idea. I was thinking about modular games as well, however in the end people have been telling me on how it's unprofessional, taking their viewpoints into account I've come to the point that it's better fixing stuff up so you can have it all as one.

Offline TBWinger92

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2016, 05:18:23 PM »
So I'm guessing there's either coming the PS4 or 3DS port.
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Offline Lord Brevon

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Re: State of the DLC
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2016, 05:48:38 PM »
My points are as follow. They apply to the smallest of developers to the largest of developers. GalaxyTrail, EA, heck even Valve. (That's for the people who will throw my post into the water because apparently I seem anti-GT).

Don't promise what you can't finish.

If you promise it, you show your willingness to achieve what you promised. With a Kickstarter backing, you're in an even more precarious position. Money from thousands of strangers were placed into Freedom Planet to see exactly what they bought into. That includes, yes, Spade and Torque expansions.

They weren't promised to be cut into a separate standalone game. They were promised to be part of Freedom Planet. Let's get more specific. This Freedom Planet. And this Freedom Planet. And this Freedom Planet. Also, this Freedom Planet, the most forgotten version of the game.

My answer to all of this is just alike r543's above me. You should finish your current project before moving on to another. This means...yes, the Spade and Torque expansions. I realize GT is just a small company by this point, but that is no excuse to break promises. Time should be dedicated to finishing those promises and saving your remaining reputation, rather than leaving those promises broken and ending up with even less reputation than before.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2016, 06:00:02 PM by Lord Brevon »