Freedom Planet Forums

News & Announcements => Freedom Planet News => Topic started by: Strife on June 06, 2016, 05:25:36 PM

Title: State of the DLC
Post by: Strife on June 06, 2016, 05:25:36 PM
Hello everyone! I've been quiet on here for a while so I thought I would swing by and let everyone know that I'm still breathing. My crew and I have been making some good progress on FP2 behind the curtain, and we've just started to fly our voice actors down to Texas to record the dialog. I haven't been showing off much of the game because I really want it to feel like something near-complete when I record gameplay footage. What I can say though is that I genuinely feel like FP2 is leaps and bounds ahead of FP1 at this point in its development.

Of course I have something else I wanted to talk about instead - the DLC for Freedom Planet 1.

I plan on making a more public announcement about this soon when I have solid dates, but I'm postponing DLC work indefinitely while I work on ports to additional consoles. The good news? Freedom Planet is coming to a new console in the future. Which one it is shall remain a mystery for the time being.

The bad news? At this point, Freedom Planet's engine is in a state where I worry about what adding extra content would do to the original experience. With that in mind, I have an idea I wanted to run by the Kickstarter backers who may be floating around here.

I am considering breaking off the DLC characters into their own standalone games that are more simplistic than Freedom Planet but better suited for their unique abilities and story perspective. There's a couple reasons for this.

The first reason is that our initial contract with MP2 Games has been fulfilled, so if we want to update the game any further from this point, we'll need create a new contract which involves paying out extra money. It makes sense of course; MP2 has moved on to other projects and they need to be fairly compensated for taking up extra time to come back and help us. It does of course bring an economic factor into all of this which complicates my ability to keep adding content to FP1.

The second reason is that I'm not happy with how Torque plays in the existing stages. He feels wonderful in his intro stage because it's designed specifically for his abilities and weapons, but he feels unwieldy elsewhere. This is one of the reasons why I planned for him to have a lot more schmup segments than the other characters, but that doesn't mask the less-than-ideal experience of his platforming stages. It's less of a problem for Spade but he still has a few trouble spots, and I would also have to give him new bosses in many of the existing stages since it doesn't make sense for him to have to fight some of them.

Putting the characters into new games would allow me to use a new engine so I wouldn't have to rely on a third party for ports, and I can comfortably switch to text-based dialog so I don't have to worry about the availability of the voice actors. I can also reuse art assets from FP1 to cut down on development time.

Again, this is just something that's been on my mind and I don't know if I'll go through with it yet. It might be better to just keep working with Spade and Torque as FP1 DLC, but I figured I'd put my thoughts out there so that our backers know where things stand right now.

Cheers~

- Stephen
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on June 06, 2016, 05:33:44 PM
Strife is still breathing? Oh good, I thought I'd have to ask someone to perform CPR.


Jokes aside, I think that a lot of people enjoy how Torque plays already for the most part.


Spade, however, well, we don't have a Spade beta yet.


I just want the DLC to be fun.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Treya on June 06, 2016, 05:54:27 PM
If you fix these major bugs/enhancements:

No more Brevon 4 RNG at the beginning.
Millas shield burst deciding not to work sometimes
Millas Adventure mode skipping a level
Odd FD3 aftermath cutscene shenanigans (with Milla)

You would still need to renew the contract anyway. I would be rather salty to be left on the edge for a broken builld, which is split apart for Milla players at the moment.

EDIT: Torque feels so integrated to the main story that it doesn't exactly feel right for him to have his own game. Plus the beta and all makes it feel like he's meant to be there. I don't think it would hurt to make him less clunky to control (a little more speed and the ability to shoot upwards diagonally in midair, perhaps?).

If you're gonna make a Spade spinoff game, at least keep slope physics. They're fun.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on June 06, 2016, 06:02:56 PM
If putting Spade and Torque in separate games is being considered, it wouldn't hurt me to purchase those extra games as long as it's reasonable. Plus, it's cool that you might be using a different and more comfortable engine for those potential games if it happens.

It looks like FP1's engine is so much of a pain in the ass, that it got to the point of potentially messing up the game if extra stuff gets added (which explains why a hub world, extra palettes, and quite a few other things were scrapped before release).
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: SuccinctAndPunchy on June 06, 2016, 06:23:14 PM
If you fix these major bugs/enhancements:

No more Brevon 4 RNG at the beginning.
Millas shield burst deciding not to work sometimes
Millas Adventure mode skipping a level
Odd FD3 aftermath cutscene shenanigans (with Milla)

You would still need to renew the contract anyway. I would be rather salty to be left on the edge for a broken builld, which is split apart for Milla players at the moment.

EDIT: Torque feels so integrated to the main story that it doesn't exactly feel right for him to have his own game. Plus the beta and all makes it feel like he's meant to be there.

I don't really want to empty quote stuff but I have nothing more to add other than to echo the sentiments of "please don't leave the game in its mildly busted state, it would be very annoying" and "the game who's story revolves mostly around Torque should probably have Torque's story in it"
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Chromatrope on June 06, 2016, 06:31:21 PM
I don't really want to empty quote stuff but I have nothing more to add other than to echo the sentiments of "please don't leave the game in its mildly busted state, it would be very annoying" and "the game who's story revolves mostly around Torque should probably have Torque's story in it"

I can second this. While there are a lot of things I complain about that cannot be fixed (coughinputscough), what can be fixed should be fixed, and right now with Milla's adventure mode in a state of 'pretty severely broken', Milla's burst jumping being broken in the current build, Moonwalk glitch having suddenly become stupidly prevalent in the current build and the RNG fixes and stuff still not existing, the game definitely still deserves some TLC.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Plom510 on June 06, 2016, 06:55:54 PM
I’m one of the Kickstarter backers that still hangs around here although all I really do is lurk. Anyway, I’ll try to give my opinions on this.

I’m not sure if making the DLC characters have their own standalone games would be a really great idea, but I know that there are a few factors that could justify this decision. Reusing FP1’s assets is already a good choice since that will allow few new assets to be made and in turn provide levels that actually compliment the DLC characters. One of my worries about this decision is length. How many stages would the standalone games have? If they would be short and not have a lot of story, I’m going to be honest. As a consumer, I feel like I’m not going to get a really good experience and just be left with something that I may only place once and put down. This is assuming if the standalone games won’t be free which I can safely say will be the case.

In my opinion, if I were to give a character their own standalone game, I would take advantage of it. Not just in terms of gameplay, but also in terms of story. By giving them their own games, I see a lot of opportunities you could use with them if you decide to go with that route. Sure it may take up a lot of work, but I feel like that It may be worth it in the end.

Of course, there is the alternative of trying to implement the DLC characters into FP1 effectively. If the problem is fear of breaking the engine, why not take the time to fix it? I can speak from experience that this isn’t very fun to do, but I know that in the end, it will definitely be worth it. Taking shortcuts tends to lead into dead ends from what I’ve experienced. I may not exactly know what the issue is with the engine in particular, but what I would suggest is maybe try to see how far you could go with implementing the new content?

There is only one real issue that I see with making the DLC characters have standalone games. Back in the Kickstarter, it was promised that Spade and Torque would be implemented into the game via a free update. I am indifferent on the decision of creating standalone games for them, but I cannot say the same thing with everyone else. Yes, there may be people who will not mind this decision, but there are those who do not like the decision but rather not be vocal about it. If standalone games are made, I fear that there will be people who will feel like the promises from the Kickstarter are broken. I can acknowledge that things can change over time, but it is still a good idea to keep those fans in mind.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on June 06, 2016, 07:26:53 PM
I’m one of the Kickstarter backers that still hangs around here although all I really do is lurk. Anyway, I’ll try to give my opinions on this.

I’m not sure if making the DLC characters have their own standalone games would be a really great idea, but I know that there are a few factors that could justify this decision. Reusing FP1’s assets is already a good choice since that will allow few new assets to be made and in turn provide levels that actually compliment the DLC characters. One of my worries about this decision is length. How many stages would the standalone games have? If they would be short and not have a lot of story, I’m going to be honest. As a consumer, I feel like I’m not going to get a really good experience and just be left with something that I may only place once and put down. This is assuming if the standalone games won’t be free which I can safely say will be the case.

In my opinion, if I were to give a character their own standalone game, I would take advantage of it. Not just in terms of gameplay, but also in terms of story. By giving them their own games, I see a lot of opportunities you could use with them if you decide to go with that route. Sure it may take up a lot of work, but I feel like that It may be worth it in the end.

Of course, there is the alternative of trying to implement the DLC characters into FP1 effectively. If the problem is fear of breaking the engine, why not take the time to fix it? I can speak from experience that this isn’t very fun to do, but I know that in the end, it will definitely be worth it. Taking shortcuts tends to lead into dead ends from what I’ve experienced. I may not exactly know what the issue is with the engine in particular, but what I would suggest is maybe try to see how far you could go with implementing the new content?

There is only one real issue that I see with making the DLC characters have standalone games. Back in the Kickstarter, it was promised that Spade and Torque would be implemented into the game via a free update. I am indifferent on the decision of creating standalone games for them, but I cannot say the same thing with everyone else. Yes, there may be people who will not mind this decision, but there are those who do not like the decision but rather not be vocal about it. If standalone games are made, I fear that there will be people who will feel like the promises from the Kickstarter are broken. I can acknowledge that things can change over time, but it is still a good idea to keep those fans in mind.


How to express your honest opinion in a non-rude manner with Plom!
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Starturbo on June 06, 2016, 07:40:07 PM
I'm honestly a bit disappointed by this, though I do kind of like the idea of giving the DLC characters separate games! I just hope they are a good length. They don't have to be as long as FP, of course, but I hope they're more than just mini games.

Though, I am worried that they will be stuck in development for a long time, as making more than one game at once can be difficult. Especially, if FP2 gets worked on more, which I'm assuming would be the case, to an extent. Still, it sounds like a good idea, and I hope it all works out!
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on June 06, 2016, 08:22:10 PM
There is only one real issue that I see with making the DLC characters have standalone games. Back in the Kickstarter, it was promised that Spade and Torque would be implemented into the game via a free update. I am indifferent on the decision of creating standalone games for them, but I cannot say the same thing with everyone else. Yes, there may be people who will not mind this decision, but there are those who do not like the decision but rather not be vocal about it. If standalone games are made, I fear that there will be people who will feel like the promises from the Kickstarter are broken. I can acknowledge that things can change over time, but it is still a good idea to keep those fans in mind.

Voucher codes of the side games for the Kickstarter backers, maybe? That way, it's economical for Strife to produce the games while keeping the promise of the extra content for backers who helped make Freedom Planet possible in the first place.

There has to be a way to make everyone happy regardless of what decision is made. In the meantime, this makes me wonder how much larger the scope of the stories for both Torque and Spade would be. Side games for them would open a lot of opportunities for a fun and conclusive tale that's not entirely tied down by the narrative of the first Freedom Planet. (Torque especially sounds like semi-prequel material.)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: KIMGIE on June 06, 2016, 08:25:58 PM
Man, wish I knew about this game sooner. I would've loved to back this game.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Strife on June 06, 2016, 11:40:28 PM
I can second this. While there are a lot of things I complain about that cannot be fixed (coughinputscough), what can be fixed should be fixed, and right now with Milla's adventure mode in a state of 'pretty severely broken', Milla's burst jumping being broken in the current build, Moonwalk glitch having suddenly become stupidly prevalent in the current build and the RNG fixes and stuff still not existing, the game definitely still deserves some TLC.

Since I'm working with MP2 again for the next port, I should have an opportunity to comb through the engine and figure out what happened with Milla and other things. Beyond that, I dread the possibility of Torque and Spade's development causing similar issues to happen in the future which is why I thought of this compromise.

Honestly the only thing keeping me going with Spade/Torque at this point is because I was obligated to in the Kickstarter. I realized pretty quickly after I started working on them that it was too ambitious of me to include them as stretch goals, and the time and effort I've put into working on them could have been much better served polishing the experience of the original three characters. If it weren't for their status as stretch goals then I would have stopped working on them much earlier. I can keep going if that's what the Kickstarter backers want me to do, but it will take a long time because I don't want to settle for less than the best that I can do.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NBlast on June 07, 2016, 01:36:12 AM
What a strange situation that is.

Putting away the debate how exactly the new content should be delivered for side now. I believe that getting that DLC finally into motion is extremely important. It's essentially point of honour now and it would severely hurt Galaxytrails reputation in the eyes of many if something won't be done. That's why I believe that personally, I would be really okay, even if delivering FP1 obligations will slow down the progress on FP2.

Overall, I'm okay with DLC being separate games, but with the restriction that it will still be free for owners of the game and it will deliver a good quality gameplay. That's all I would like to see. How things would be delivered are secondary things.

Going the normal DLC route have benefits. Chroma and rest mentioned that there are still bugs in the mian release and those would be nice to be fixed eventually, so game would be left in the good state when development will be closed. I also don't mind FP1's Torque in the beta and seeing that he doesn't really need that much of attention to bring him to shippable state, I would say that those are strong point to keep everything in FP1 engine. As for Spade... I will be controversial here... While I believe that Classic mode Spade should be made one or the other way, many people would not cry too much if there would be no Adventure Mode for him period. Not many people care about the FP1 story anyway and especially Spade's characters. While I see the way to pull this story off really nicely, it would be also costly and, in my opinion, a bit of the lost cause. In the end I would be satisfied woth Torque's Story+Classic and Spade's Classic.

As for "separate game" route. I see one particular problem: how to deliver the goods logistically? Steam is no problem, you could put is as a separable executive in the game's folder and make a selection for a owner which game to start, but is it as easy with Nintendo? Would they allow giving essentially a free game to owners of FP1? Also, do you believe that you could pull off a separate games on the new engine with less resources and time consumption to make it? It seems a bit unbelievable - this could be considered a port of the whole game from MF2 to Unity.

There is also one trick that I could associate with the "Separate game" route. What if those side game would be free for everybody? Essentially - a big publicity and marketing stunt to boost interest in FP2 by putting a small, free game to everybody (or for a small fee for those that are not owning FP1). While costly, it possibly could be a good idea.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Strife on June 07, 2016, 01:50:03 AM
If I go with the independent game route, the games would most likely be freeware, yes. Karma dictates it. If not that, then at the very least the original backers will be gifted free copies.

If they stay in FP1, it would help a lot if Spade only had a Classic mode, yeah. Mostly because of the extra time that would be needed to record unique dialog for his story scenario, and because it would make it more excusable if I kept his bosses mostly the same as the other characters with a few exceptions.

Since I'm not outright cancelling the DLC then I don't believe this will have any impact on the perception of GalaxyTrail. To be fair, we're already ranked pretty low on reliability because of repeatedly missing our release dates in the past. :P I plan on fixing this by simply not announcing release dates until we are 100% sure we can achieve them.
But in all seriousness, if for any reason our Kickstarter backers feel like we simply haven't done enough, I would be more than happy to give them a full refund of their pledge money, plus whatever else I can think to gift them.

I disagree with prioritizing the DLC. FP2 is my #1 priority right now. It would be an unwise business decision for me to put the sequel on hold while the rest of the team is working so hard on it and depending on me to do my share.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on June 07, 2016, 02:22:29 AM
Since I'm working with MP2 again for the next port, I should have an opportunity to comb through the engine and figure out what happened with Milla and other things. Beyond that, I dread the possibility of Torque and Spade's development causing similar issues to happen in the future which is why I thought of this compromise.

Honestly the only thing keeping me going with Spade/Torque at this point is because I was obligated to in the Kickstarter. I realized pretty quickly after I started working on them that it was too ambitious of me to include them as stretch goals, and the time and effort I've put into working on them could have been much better served polishing the experience of the original three characters. If it weren't for their status as stretch goals then I would have stopped working on them much earlier. I can keep going if that's what the Kickstarter backers want me to do, but it will take a long time because I don't want to settle for less than the best that I can do.


Honestly, I feel that people really want you to keep doing Torque and Spade as they are. Me, personally, I guess I wouldn't mind Spade only having Classic, though I feel his story would be the most interesting.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 07, 2016, 02:24:27 AM
The DLC was promised to Kickstarter backers, moving them to standalone will not change this promise. So please don't disagree if your concern is whether or not as a backer you'll be getting a key. You will. It's going to be what was promised, just delivered in a better (read: stable) package.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Plom510 on June 07, 2016, 02:26:23 AM
I would like to see Spade get an Adventure mode if he were to be implemented. It just wouldn't feel right if every character but Spade has an Adventure mode in my honest opinion. Besides, I'm one who enjoys Freedom Planet's story and would like to see what Spade's perspective is on the game's events.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Creepario on June 07, 2016, 06:47:40 AM
Yeah, for me both Torque and Spade play very good, so Torque in Adventure and Classic and Spade in Classic is a good idea. Also i don't have a problem with seperate "games" for them (so Strife could clean up FP and put both Spade's and Torque's assets into the new ones maybe) and if you would install these, you would need FP installed or something.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Raxz on June 07, 2016, 08:44:12 AM
I'm just going to chime in with all the people saying Torque plays fine as is, even platforming wise. I've actually been hoping this whole time that not all of his exclusive stages are shmups.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: swampselkie on June 07, 2016, 12:01:56 PM
Personally, I won't mind if all we get of Spade is the showdown with Dail as his only canonical material. I just want to see how that scene/stage plays out - I don't mind so much about the rest of his game.

I really enjoyed the different feel Torque's gameplay brought to the existing stages, and while I can totally appreciate that he's likely to play more smoothly in stages tailored to his style, I don't believe that's necessarily a big deal. It even has some thematic justification - as someone from another planet, Torque might find Horizon Starport well-suited to his abilities but then become a little clumsier in the unfamiliar terrain of Avalice.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on June 07, 2016, 12:18:48 PM
To be honest, if I were to limit myself to just a game's story, I'd be limiting the number of games in my personal library. One would finish a game once and never touch it again, but the same happens with story centric games.

I'm neutral about Spade not having an Adventure Mode. On one side, I just want to play him, but on the other hand, it frustrates me not understanding why Spade is portrayed the way he is in the perspective of the other characters.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Treya on June 07, 2016, 12:37:47 PM
I'm one who would like to see his story mode to get a better idea of how Spade actually is. I know what most of Torques scenes are going to be like, the same can't be said for the other.

Though Classic can come out first.

I admit, I'm biased for voice acted cutscenes though. I can't resist his smooth voice...
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Ashema_Bahumat on June 07, 2016, 01:08:12 PM
Saw this coming from a mile away, lol. I mean, it was kinda obvious you guys had FP1 on stun. I'm glad, too, cuz that means FP2 progressed way faster than what most were initially thinking. Better yet, the possibility of a new game for Torque and Spade just fills me with glee, lol. Having them available in time attack and have a pseudo-classic mode with stages they can already complete would also be nice if its going on stun, too(just a rogue idea). Tho, this does propose an issue: how the fuck am I supposed to pay for the second game and FP2 if I don't have the muns(kappa)? O, btw @Strife , take a break if you need it. I can only assume that you've been putting a lot of work into both games with little downtime. Even working machines need to go on standby every now and then :V
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: jerrytown on June 07, 2016, 02:47:18 PM
I'd like the idea for standalone game if it can bring better quality,and I am willing to wait for it as well.

It's also surprise me that you would abandon the idea if it's not for backers,working on something you no longer had interesting in is a torture.So take your time if you don't really in mood when making expansion content,

As for Spade's story mode,while most people doesn't too fond of him.I don't think his story mode should be cancelled.He is the only one playable character that is anti-hero(villian),and all we know about him is he hates Carol and Lilac in the heroes story. Isn't it interesting to see his other side when his not face heroes?
And isn't his story mode also a stretch goal for kickstater backers

One last question is:If the idea of standalone game has been realized,will they make it to other platform other than PC?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on June 07, 2016, 03:50:08 PM
It's very likely that Spade's side of the story won't make him look like the villain he was portrayed as in the other characters. Since Lilac and Carol don't see Spade as often, we don't know what he's doing exactly off screen, and we might finally sympathize once we see his perspective. Plus, Spade's final boss is Dail, the same guy who you face twice when playing as the other four.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on June 07, 2016, 04:40:07 PM
One last question is:If the idea of standalone game has been realized,will they make it to other platform other than PC?

That's one of the reasons Strife wants to make them standalone games, so there's no back-and-forth porting the DLC with MP2's involvement. Any other middleware besides MMF2 is insanely much more portable, like Unity. (Which Freedom Planet 2 is using, so a stand alone game might be made with that instead of Fusion.)

To be honest, if I were to limit myself to just a game's story, I'd be limiting the number of games in my personal library. One would finish a game once and never touch it again, but the same happens with story centric games.

I love story-centric games, although even I only play them once the urge hits me. So for as much of a Zelda fan as I am, I only play one of the games when I feel strongly about experiencing them again. It's most certainly not because I enjoy solving the same puzzles over and over again.

However, in Freedom Planet's case, the platforming is so fun, that I keep playing the levels in-between the times where I want to experience the story again. For instance, despite playing the stages on a daily basis, I haven't touched Adventure Mode in a year, save to see what new cutscenes were recently introduced for Milla's finished adventure.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 08, 2016, 11:49:09 AM
Yeah, as a note, if we went with modular games, we could make the games using Unity which would mean much, much easier porting to various consoles.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: r543 on June 08, 2016, 03:16:07 PM
Of course I have something else I wanted to talk about instead - the DLC for Freedom Planet 1.
.
Quote
The bad news? At this point, Freedom Planet's engine is in a state where I worry about what adding extra content would do to the original experience. With that in mind, I have an idea I wanted to run by the Kickstarter backers who may be floating around here.
I take you're talking about "breaking old content" just like what happened with the updates before and not the "they will feel alienlike" ?
While certain people might say that those kickstarter goals are for backers only, I disagree with that and haven't found any information on Kickstarter's site about this, so unless someone links me that I won't believe this and think that everyone who owns this game should be able to tell their opinion, not that many active backers are left on the forums anyways. Even if the above mentioned point should be proven true, it was said that everyone will get the DLC content, so they should still have the right to talk about this.
Of course you can't please every fan, but I think they have a right to say and have their opinion heard as well.

Quote
I am considering breaking off the DLC characters into their own standalone games that are more simplistic than Freedom Planet but better suited for their unique abilities and story perspective. There's a couple reasons for this.
I'd prefer if they were part of the main game just like they were supposed to, both characters play an important role in the story. This is just my personal thought but I was hoping that the characters give us different views of the story, so you see what was all going on in Spade's side, how Torque did things and how Milla first got to Brevon.
This worked more or less with Lilac and Carol, Milla's storymode was sadly a bit disappointing in that, having an alternate timeline for a story that could've been linked to the main one without much trouble(if you still want to do that without scrapping or adding many things, check the Milla story mode threads, made a small suggestion on that a long time ago, which makes Brevon appear in the middle of FD3's final room, taking her out with one hit and making her unconscious, after that Milla wakes up and sees Torque together with Carol(from there it all plays until the end, this "alternate timeline" gets turned into a dream, until the final boss where Milla wakes up after defeating Brevon, in the tent just like in the normal ending).

I don't exactly know what you would do with more simplistic standalone games, would you try to recreate FP(in a more simplified version, basically porting over levels(which would maybe need to be remade?)) or create a completely new game with Torque and Spade? I feel like I can't properly judge on this before I know more information about it.

Quote
The first reason is that our initial contract with MP2 Games has been fulfilled, so if we want to update the game any further from this point, we'll need create a new contract which involves paying out extra money. It makes sense of course; MP2 has moved on to other projects and they need to be fairly compensated for taking up extra time to come back and help us. It does of course bring an economic factor into all of this which complicates my ability to keep adding content to FP1.
I honestly can't say anything but "see, told ya", I already questioned the decisions of doing a port of a unfinished game and sent you my concerns about this in PM. In short, I would've done the porting at the end after the game's definitely finished or only getting a few little patches, here's the differences between the two versions:

Ports after finishing the game
+Less cost, there might be more bugs to patch(bigger content), however you only need to do it once and are done after that
+versions are all at same level, the wiiU version isn't months behind the PC one, they all are finished and on the same release, so you won't be having content or bugs that other platforms have.

-console users have to wait until the game is finished, this also means possibly less advertising(you can't tell people on PAX 2015 that your game is on the WiiU and have to wait many years, which might result in lower sales, also having it released last means that you can't have news(which bring back players/potential new customers), other than sequels and possible bugfixes))

Ports while the game is in development(what Strife did)
+Game can be advertised more, since it's already on consoles, fans thinking "if this was only on the WiiU" can instantly get it, instead of possibly forgetting about it later, resulting in a possiblity of higher sales.

-updates for multiple platforms & higher cost if it goes on for a long time, this won't be an issue if you release one or two versions before the final content, but if you keep doing new updates(like FP's been doing, also don't forget that the desktop version is also running a "port") you will have to do multiple updates(which all have the possiblity of having a new bug since something was changed), resulting in a higher total cost. Also you have to do each of those updates for each different platform, further increasing the time and giving the possiblity of a platform staying behind.

Apparently, game advertising(getting it on multiple platforms(because a lot of fans want to have a game on console with PC not being an option, even if said game had low requirements)

This also shows why Services or Leasing aren't great, why am I mentioning this? Well everywhere I see mentioned on how Services are the best thing ever, yet people seem to fail to realize what the issues are with them and how you relie on them, how are you going to do stuff without them?
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The second reason is that I'm not happy with how Torque plays in the existing stages. He feels wonderful in his intro stage because it's designed specifically for his abilities and weapons, but he feels unwieldy elsewhere. This is one of the reasons why I planned for him to have a lot more schmup segments than the other characters, but that doesn't mask the less-than-ideal experience of his platforming stages. It's less of a problem for Spade but he still has a few trouble spots, and I would also have to give him new bosses in many of the existing stages since it doesn't make sense for him to have to fight some of them.
As a guy that has hacked the game and played the incomplete "Gunstar Heroes" Torque, I can only say how much better he played, his damage might not have been too strong, but you had more HP, the ability to get different weapon combos(not fully implemented) and no ammo issues either, the slow glide(which made some levels unbeatable, would've needed an addional move) and very fast dash(instantly sent you to max speed, was on a seperate button) gave you the mobility and extra aim needed to hit the bosses, and that's saying something as the projectiles of Gunstar Torque were way smaller.

As for new Torque, I think it's mostly the damage which makes Horizon Starport(I've allowed myself to take a preview at your work, saw both versions, the earlier(which is now the second half) and later one included in the Torque betas), I really hope that it is the damage and not the gimmicks(which are the other big thing about this stage), because any character could be put into this bouncing sphere. I've made a suggestion about the damage buffs in the Torque thread some time ago, this suggestion was done wit h a deep game analysis on enemy health and "damage frames", so it's not something thrown together in 5 minutes by a random fan.

Spade mostly has trouble linking the Story, he has been a character that's been available for ages(even back in Beta 1 where the Story was going to be a bit different), and his gameplay has been set into stone ever since the 1.6.10 beta, later, when you made the game reboot on character select(by the way the old character loop wasn't too bad but not really needed) his damage was nerfed as well as his card meter and height you would gain from the special would be reduced as well, however his moveset still stayed.

From what I see, his stages are basically this:

Aqua Tunnel(his intro stage, secret entrance to Relic Maze)
Relic Maze(most likely the same as Milla given how there's Minecart sprites for him), having the Mantis as boss would work as there are broken pieces from it laying around.
Rage Ravine(way to Fortune Night, we are still getting this stage, right?)
Fortune Night(escaping from Serpentine and fighting him in the end?)
Sky Battalion(probably jumps up to one of Dail's ships/little Dail cutscene?) I could imagine him going with dail, then realizing how corrupt he is and deciding to take down his ship(so it more or less works)
Jade Creek?(way back to Trap Hideout)
Trap Hideout(hopefully a new level that shows the front entrance(which in my idea is guarded with a lot of lasers, luckily his dash allows to bypass them, also uses the unused trap hideout music)
Thermal Base(Spade sabotages the base, making it explode)
Battle Glacier
Shuigang Palace(I was hoping for a 4 part stage here much like Final Dreadnought, 1 being the outside of the city, 2 the city, 3 the palace and 4 the final battle)

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Putting the characters into new games would allow me to use a new engine so I wouldn't have to rely on a third party for ports, and I can comfortably switch to text-based dialog so I don't have to worry about the availability of the voice actors. I can also reuse art assets from FP1 to cut down on development time.

Again, this is just something that's been on my mind and I don't know if I'll go through with it yet. It might be better to just keep working with Spade and Torque as FP1 DLC, but I figured I'd put my thoughts out there so that our backers know where things stand right now.

Cheers~

- Stephen
I feel like it wouldn't be the same, after all we were promised Classic and Adventure for Torque in FP1, not having those two characters and their view of the story doesn't feel the same.

Honestly the only thing keeping me going with Spade/Torque at this point is because I was obligated to in the Kickstarter. I realized pretty quickly after I started working on them that it was too ambitious of me to include them as stretch goals, and the time and effort I've put into working on them could have been much better served polishing the experience of the original three characters. If it weren't for their status as stretch goals then I would have stopped working on them much earlier. I can keep going if that's what the Kickstarter backers want me to do, but it will take a long time because I don't want to settle for less than the best that I can do.
That's sad to hear, I remember how energetic you were working on those characters and possibly adding extra ones for fun, like Milla for example, from what I've heard she was originally supposed to be a side character which dies at the end, however because she was made into a playable character(possibly just to see how her different gameplay is), she got way more than that and luckily stayed in the team.

Having worked with Gamemaker before, I know how quickly "drag and drop events" can turn into a big hard to manage list(as far as I know most of fusion is done that way?), the fact that the object behaviours in fusion have to be defined for each room doesn't help much with that either:

In multimedia fusion, if you create a object, let's say a bullet that has the speed of 5, you need to say that it has the speed of 5(basically all of it's coding) for every room, the title screen, every level and all those fade out/ins are different rooms. You can set a object to global(so you don't need to do all this, however having too many global objects will cause performance drops).

However it makes me wonder why you announced those goals as you've been doing games before(such as Fable Quest, Spectrum Chase/Time Heroes and more, I remember that one RPG where you ended up having so much rooms that it caused a bit of trouble for fusion to load all of them, man those must've been the times) and knew that those problems would be happening with MMF2, also wouldn't those chowdren/porting problems have been an issue if Torque/Spade were (mostly) finished before the ports were beginning?

Also seeing how you are needed in FP2 for a lot of decisions, brings up the question why starting the development of the second game before the first one is finished is a good idea. I was thinking about modular games as well, however in the end people have been telling me on how it's unprofessional, taking their viewpoints into account I've come to the point that it's better fixing stuff up so you can have it all as one.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: TBWinger92 on June 08, 2016, 05:18:23 PM
So I'm guessing there's either coming the PS4 or 3DS port.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Lord Brevon on June 08, 2016, 05:48:38 PM
My points are as follow. They apply to the smallest of developers to the largest of developers. GalaxyTrail, EA, heck even Valve. (That's for the people who will throw my post into the water because apparently I seem anti-GT).

Don't promise what you can't finish.

If you promise it, you show your willingness to achieve what you promised. With a Kickstarter backing, you're in an even more precarious position. Money from thousands of strangers were placed into Freedom Planet to see exactly what they bought into. That includes, yes, Spade and Torque expansions.

They weren't promised to be cut into a separate standalone game. They were promised to be part of Freedom Planet. Let's get more specific. This Freedom Planet. (https://www.gog.com/game/freedom_planet) And this Freedom Planet. (https://www.humblebundle.com/store/p/freedomplanet_storefront) And this Freedom Planet. (http://store.steampowered.com/app/248310/) Also, this Freedom Planet, (http://www.nintendo.com/games/detail/L6htkSwa_KeePlYrdKPdi2ssC7jyIxpP) the most forgotten version of the game.

My answer to all of this is just alike r543's above me. You should finish your current project before moving on to another. This means...yes, the Spade and Torque expansions. I realize GT is just a small company by this point, but that is no excuse to break promises. Time should be dedicated to finishing those promises and saving your remaining reputation, rather than leaving those promises broken and ending up with even less reputation than before.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 08, 2016, 08:38:49 PM
Again, please read Strife's response in full because the two of you seem to have failed to realize that this actually would fulfill the promise you're saying needs to be filled before... being able to actually fulfill the promise. This isn't the sort of response we're looking for, it doesn't answer the questions, it simply muddles things into a level of unreasonable demands that might mean the DLC taking a super long time to ever come out, or not at all.

All the while suggesting the company run itself into the ground and fail to ever make another game again out of a belief that a stringent regimen of making one thing at a time be followed, despite that not being reasonable, logical, financially viable, or even something anyone in the industry would ever possibly expect.

These would still be part of Freedom Planet, the fact they'd have a different executable in no way, shape, or form changes that. To hold that standard is just not even trying to think about the best solution. This isn't broken promises, this is an attempt to actually fulfill them. And yes, I will stop this conversation if a civil manner isn't maintained about it.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 08, 2016, 08:58:06 PM
If I can actually make things very simple, here's the choice Strife has to make right now:

1. Produce the original DLC as a component to the current game. The end result will take a very, very long time to do, will not be the best possible product, and will be super buggy and possibly very expensive to ever deliver to ported versions of the game. (Which, I should point out, were never promised. That's an extra.)

2. Produce two standalone versions of the DLC in a much more stable engine, able to even possibly utilize the upgraded engines that we've been working on to produce much more substancial versions of the promised DLC, complete with tons of new levels, content, and story. In an engine which is also very simple to port from and can be made available to users on any platform we move the main game to without much issue.

Regardless of whether it's a patch to the original game, or standalone, they are still things which belong to the Freedom Planet series. Their stories are still part of the same story that is portrayed in the main game, and you'll in fact be getting MORE than was ever promised with the second option. DLC delivered in Standalone is also far from an unprecidented matter, studios often do this when they run into complications with their original engine which prevent them from delivering the kind of content they wanted to produce.

Backers are NOT going to be shorted, you'll be getting the content, as promised. If you're not a backer, I'm fairly certain we'll be working something out for people too. This isn't a broken promise, this is the key to fulfilling it. You could have option 1, but let's be plain. As a fan, do you want more content or less? Do you want it sooner, or much, much later? Option 1 does not present something you'll get a lot out of or anytime soon due to the bug issues. Option 2 promises above and beyond the original promise.

I'll also be frank: Production on Freedom Planet 2 is not going to change or halt. It's moving forward. Please make peace with it, Strife is still working to deliver all the Kickstarter promises and has even offered to refund those not satisfied. This isn't about that. We're not making it about that. So please, don't clutter this thread with that. Stick to the DLC.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Strife on June 08, 2016, 09:49:34 PM
Echoing what Seraphna said but there's a few things I'd like to emphasize.

1. I cannot, and will not, halt production on Freedom Planet 2 - a game with a much higher budget, larger staff and strict internal deadlines - to work on a free, low-budget expansion to our previous game that would provide little if any income to our studio. It would be a very poor business decision. I really would like to move forward instead of saying in the same place.

2. I acknowledge that the Kickstarter stretch goals were too ambitious on my part, and I apologize. What I have proposed so far is my way of trying to make it up to people, because I still want to try and do my best to turn this into something cool and beneficial.

3. While I understand that I made a promise, I cannot be chained to it, for the sake of my mental well-being. You're entitled to your opinions about me, but please don't use the DLC as an excuse to threaten or manipulate me or my staff. Again, I am offering refunds to any backers who feel dissatisfied with my decisions.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: SuccinctAndPunchy on June 08, 2016, 09:57:40 PM
Don't promise what you can't finish.

This is a fabulous idea in hindsight, but is not massively useful at the exact moment.

Since I'm working with MP2 again for the next port, I should have an opportunity to comb through the engine and figure out what happened with Milla and other things. Beyond that, I dread the possibility of Torque and Spade's development causing similar issues to happen in the future which is why I thought of this compromise.

Honestly the only thing keeping me going with Spade/Torque at this point is because I was obligated to in the Kickstarter. I realized pretty quickly after I started working on them that it was too ambitious of me to include them as stretch goals, and the time and effort I've put into working on them could have been much better served polishing the experience of the original three characters. If it weren't for their status as stretch goals then I would have stopped working on them much earlier. I can keep going if that's what the Kickstarter backers want me to do, but it will take a long time because I don't want to settle for less than the best that I can do.

Cool. As long as the existing game isn't kinda just left to languish entirely and gets that small bit of extra polish then the idea of splitting the DLC off into sidegame things becomes a lot easier to swallow. It's also probably better for said DLC from a pure quality standpoint, MMF2 is an ass to work with and it turns out making levels that fit five characters all of whom handle completely differently is actually really hard! In that regard you seem to have figured out what the best path is, so I say do you. I'm sure it'll work out better than trying to fit all this shit into one game.

also i'm sorta glad you said it so I didn't have to about the DLC being too ambitious an inclusion because I've kinda thought that for a while so it's sorta funny to see we're on the same sort of wavelength. I'm also not gonna lie, it's sorta ass that the DLC promised in the KS got put on the backburner for a sequel that nobody explicitly pledged for. I know it makes the most business sense since yeah you're probably right about the DLC probably not doing much for you and I totally don't envy your position, but that's still kind of a dodgy thing to do? Like, hindsight is 20/20 and all that so I'm not gonna bother telling you the obvious and I wouldn't really expect you to prioritize the DLC over FP2 now since that's in full swing but that's definitely dodgy, I would be way way more careful about trying the patience of people who gave you money for this stuff. I didn't, so I'm sorta just saying, if I did, that would probably gall me somewhat.

edit: k i missed the part where you're apparently offering refunds for unhappy backers which is probably about the best you could do in this scenario i dunno man

If not that, then at the very least the original backers will be gifted free copies.

Not gonna lie, since I'm not a backer and all, the DLC having been advertised as free for so incredibly long, and having actually spent my own time to play the DLC beta and provide feedback on it and stuff, it then suddenly not being a free thing like I was told it would be for months and having to buy it as a sidegame would make me sort of butthurt.

That said, you have options in this scenario, I'm like nearly certain you do a thing with Steam so that people who own a certain game get a sizable discount on a certain other game, or timed free "DLC" for people who own said game. Or a bunch of other things you could do to not make people like me butthurt.

I totally don't envy your position on any of this and at the end of the day I'm still gonna buy freedom planet 2 anyway, best of luck dude.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: MirrorHoney on June 09, 2016, 01:55:13 AM
What I see here is saddening. I'm afraid this isn't gonna end well...

I'd also advise to port FP1 to something that's easier to work with (like Unity), because let's face it, Multimedia Fusion is a clumsy, inefficent piece of dogshit, and porting it to a better, more flexible engine would make work on FP1 easier and open new opportunities for FP1 such as easier portability and different languages support, but oh well, it's not a good business decision either, as it would still take unnecessary time and effort. Personally, I would more happily pay for a full FP1 port with Spade and Torque fully incorporated in the game, regardless of how different their gameplay would be from the main trio, than for two relatively smaller games with just Spade and Torque respectively, but I'm afraid that nobody will share my opinion because FP1 is already made and bought by pretty much everybody here.
So Strife, if you're willing to go with "make new games instead of DLCs" way", that's my two cents. Not the best solution (let's call it "Freedom Planet DX" way"), but I think it would be better this way, because I'm not happy with the way FP1 goes on MMF: it's still broken as hell, and fixing bugs is already a major pain in the ass, let alone finishing both DLCs. Let me know what you think about it.

upd: After thinking on your words of how finishing DLCs is a poor business decision because sequel is in development, I'd also say that's it's a much poorer business decision to start a development of a sequel before finishing the first game (including DLCs) and polishing it, because... well, just look at this thread - pretty much everybody's upset! Not to mention that FP1, as I've alredy said, is broken.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Ultigonio on June 09, 2016, 02:19:54 AM
In terms of having a better piece of software to play, Torque and Spade (especially Spade) having only levels and bosses built for them sounds like something I'd strongly support.

'Course, similar to what Punchy said, I'm just the teeniest, tiniest bit miffed that this will mean that something which has been established to be free for quite some length of time will now be something I need to pay for - but in terms of encouraging that you move forward (especially since FP1 seems to be something you have little energy and time for at the moment), it may be the ideal strategy.  Honestly, I'm not as attached to the idea of playing as Torque or Spade as some others were - I've had my fill of FP1, and, while more would be fine, I'd love to see something new.

All that said, I think the idea of having entirely separate games for Torque and Spade seems a bit troubling to me with respect to your workload - I'd assume that building brand new games for the two of them, however short they may be, will put more work on your plate than you were initially planning for the DLC.  I just hope that doesn't end up slowing you down in the long run.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NBlast on June 09, 2016, 02:39:14 AM
Not gonna lie, since I'm not a backer and all, the DLC having been advertised as free for so incredibly long, and having actually spent my own time to play the DLC beta and provide feedback on it and stuff, it then suddenly not being a free thing like I was told it would be for months and having to buy it as a sidegame would make me sort of butthurt.

That said, you have options in this scenario, I'm like nearly certain you do a thing with Steam so that people who own a certain game get a sizable discount on a certain other game, or timed free "DLC" for people who own said game. Or a bunch of other things you could do to not make people like me butthurt.

I totally don't envy your position on any of this and at the end of the day I'm still gonna buy freedom planet 2 anyway, best of luck dude.

I think that should be the main point of interest and discussion here.

Getting DLC delayed? I have all patience of the world. DLC being developed as separate games? No problem. Focusing on FP2 in favor of DLC? Okay, as long DLC will be delivered eventually. Everything else that may change against our preconceptions (like Torque's gameplay and such)? Again not a problem.

The main problem, for me at least is to charge people who already own the game for a DLC. I strikes me in two ways. Kickstarter stretch goals, I believe, does not state explicitly that those additions will be free for backers only. It could be implied, but it wasn't really as upfront as it should be in that case (Any piece of DLC that will be provided only to backers on Kickstarter is usually marked as *backer exclusive*). It would be (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong) also a precedent of not offering DLC stretch for free for every owner. I think that there should be a look at the competition on the market. For example, I'm not a backer for Shovel Knight, but I still received DLC promised in the campaign.

I posted this idea earlier, but I would flesh it out a bit. There is a way of compromise, to get some money from those DLCs, but without angering the fanbase with asking them for more dosh, when they where thinking that they will get it for free.

DLC would be a standalone game. Freedom Planet: Chaser would consist of a Torque's campaign. It could arrive in the Steam Shop for 5 bucks. Every owner of FP1 would automatically get the game for free. That said, this standalone expansion would be also offered to those without the main game, working out as a demo of some sorts. While purchasing/beating the Chaser one will receive a -33% coupon for FP1. If the quality of the standalone game will be high, someone might be inclined to throw a bit more bucks, if he doesn't already own the game, because he just stumbled upon Chaser expansion. People already owning FP1 and Chaser still get a coupon, which could be given to a friend.

The same could be done for Freedom Planet: The Red Scarves, but it could grand a small discount for Freedom Planet 2 instead, for example
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Zylphe on June 09, 2016, 04:19:14 AM
You know when I backed I have full belief that you guys will do the right choice. After all I pushed forward multiple copy of Freedom Planet to my friends. Do what needs to be done and focus on the main task at hand. FP2. Then you could focus on the extras in due time.
It would be much more planned out if you pour all your efforts into the second game. Which already said so before in the thread.

Side's. I already grown to a point where I can't expect all fullfillments satisfied so I rather take what I can get no matter how much money I send to the devs. : ) Because the point is... (And while not everyone would agree with my statement) is that since Galaxy Trail is an up and coming Gaming Company that the money would be put towards something more grand. Such as their future titles (not just the Freedom Planet series but other games in general if they wish to do so in the future.) I would rather put towards my money to a indie dev in hopes to supplement the future titles then to just wait idly by for a free update to a game which I completed over numerous of times which I only pick up and play on random occasions.

I wish you the best of success Strife. Really I do and all of Galaxy Trail. Thank you for everything of FP series.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Treya on June 09, 2016, 11:02:21 AM
This isn't the first time stretch goal plans have changed.

Remember when there was meant to be a comic series? That got replaced (with improved art or voice acting? I don't exactly remember).
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NBlast on June 09, 2016, 12:14:30 PM
This isn't the first time stretch goal plans have changed.

Remember when there was meant to be a comic series? That got replaced (with improved art or voice acting? I don't exactly remember).

Better pixel art. That was a good decision overall.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 09, 2016, 12:44:28 PM
I'd also say that's it's a much poorer business decision to start a development of a sequel before finishing the first game (including DLCs) and polishing it, because... well, just look at this thread - pretty much everybody's upset! Not to mention that FP1, as I've alredy said, is broken.

I don't mean to be crude, but it's not a poor business decision. Every company producing games with sequels begins production on those sequels most often during the DLC phase of the previous game, if not even earlier while the first game is being made. This is called rolling phase production, it's a basic of the industry because video games are not made with 100% of your staff working on it from start to end, certain talents only come into effect in the beginning, middle, or end of production and if you have nothing else for them to work on, they are literally sitting on their hands doing nothing. You guys are actually telling us that losing a ton of money on delaying work that people who actually have nothing to do with FP1's development and wouldn't be able to help with it anyway is a good business decision. I want you to think about that, I mean seriously, think about that, and tell me how you think that's a good idea and what the benefit is for the cost. A cost, I should point out, you aren't actually privy too.

I often see people try to place the argument of "poor business decision", but I have to ask... how many video game companies have you run? Or businesses in general? How do so many people know what is and is not a good business decision, yet so many businesses go under all the time? You don't actually mean "Poor business decision", you probably mean you personally don't like what you're seeing, but those are not the same things.

'Course, similar to what Punchy said, I'm just the teeniest, tiniest bit miffed that this will mean that something which has been established to be free for quite some length of time will now be something I need to pay for - but in terms of encouraging that you move forward (especially since FP1 seems to be something you have little energy and time for at the moment), it may be the ideal strategy.  Honestly, I'm not as attached to the idea of playing as Torque or Spade as some others were - I've had my fill of FP1, and, while more would be fine, I'd love to see something new.

We've... again, not once stated that these will have to be paid for. I can guarantee backers will get it for free, and the talk of non-backers getting it for free for a limited time after release is being tossed around. We do thank everyone for letting us know how they feel on that subject and it IS being taken into account.

Quote
All that said, I think the idea of having entirely separate games for Torque and Spade seems a bit troubling to me with respect to your workload - I'd assume that building brand new games for the two of them, however short they may be, will put more work on your plate than you were initially planning for the DLC.  I just hope that doesn't end up slowing you down in the long run.

The exact opposite. As both Strife and I have stated several times now. The state of FP1's engine is in such a place that making a new game from the ground up is actually easier and LESS time consuming.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: MirrorHoney on June 09, 2016, 01:27:06 PM
I don't mean to be crude, but it's not a poor business decision. Every company producing games with sequels begins production on those sequels most often during the DLC phase of the previous game, if not even earlier while the first game is being made. This is called rolling phase production, it's a basic of the industry because video games are not made with 100% of your staff working on it from start to end, certain talents only come into effect in the beginning, middle, or end of production and if you have nothing else for them to work on, they are literally sitting on their hands doing nothing. You guys are actually telling us that losing a ton of money on delaying work that people who actually have nothing to do with FP1's development and wouldn't be able to help with it anyway is a good business decision. I want you to think about that, I mean seriously, think about that, and tell me how you think that's a good idea and what the benefit is for the cost. A cost, I should point out, you aren't actually privy too.

I often see people try to place the argument of "poor business decision", but I have to ask... how many video game companies have you run? Or businesses in general? How do so many people know what is and is not a good business decision, yet so many businesses go under all the time? You don't actually mean "Poor business decision", you probably mean you personally don't like what you're seeing, but those are not the same things.
I don't mean to be crude either, but OW THE EDGE.
OK, I admit my idiocy (first of all because I've never seen rolling phase production in action before - every franchise I follow (most notably EA's NFS series) starts working on the sequel once the game is fully complete and all DLCs are made and working normally, but those are AAA franchises and they rarely keep the cast for the next game (most notably EA's NFS series)...). Anyway, if you don't like what we're suggesting and think our suggestions are stupid, why not tell that you don't need any suggestions and/or lock the threads from retards like me? That would save both parties their nerves.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on June 09, 2016, 01:48:37 PM
I seriously can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. Ouch. Really rough language there, Honey.

It's like some people don't realize Strife isn't a random indie dev working on games and holding a day job on the side. GalaxyTrail is an actual company with bills to pay and people to pay and scheduled appointments- I don't know the half of running a company myself, but I still know what I'm entitled to as a consumer: Nothing.

GalaxyTrail needs to actually stay afloat. It's easy to say "BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS" as a consumer because we know what we would like; not what's best for the company behind the scenes. Acting like Strife should sink GalaxyTrail for the entitlement of a handful of people is disrespectful and it shocks me how (some other) types of fans behave during times like this.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 09, 2016, 02:06:48 PM
I don't mean to be crude either, but OW THE EDGE.
OK, I admit my idiocy (first of all because I've never seen rolling phase production in action before - every franchise I follow (most notably EA's NFS series) starts working on the sequel once the game is fully complete and all DLCs are made and working normally, but those are AAA franchises and they rarely keep the cast for the next game (most notably EA's NFS series)...).

EA doesn't work that way for any of their games. They've been a Rolling Production company for well over a decade. If you believe that they do one at a time sequentially like that... you've been fooled. My source would be several collegues who work at EA or have worked there before. Heck, it was a Bioware executive (a subsidary of EA games) who even pointed out how production cycles in their company (and their parent company) work.

What they do, possibly, is create an illusion by having 20+ production companies. You may see a production company working on only one game at a time, but the employees in that company are traded all around between them. You have to remember, while you think EA only makes one NFS at a time, they're also working on dozens of video games as well at the same time. The only difference here is GalaxyTrail only has a single franchise (so far) to work with. We're not even looking to make another until our first fully independent title gets made. I should point out that the studio behind the new NFS games is comprised, 80%, of employees from other EA studios. And no, they haven't left those studios.

...And no. No AAA studio on the planet keeps their full team working on DLC, and certainly not to completion of that DLC. There's no reason to keep people who work on engines, create concept art, create the music, etc, from working on a project after their done. And at that point you have to either let them go or put them to work on something else, otherwise you would be paying them to do nothing at all. That's the #1 reason for rolling productions, to keep staff members employed. It's been a long while since the industry standard was to treat it's employees like wandering vagabonds who only needed to be paid one project at a time.

Just to press my point down. EA Games, as an Umbrella Company, constantly shifts around staff. I'm sure my friend Ryan would love to know how he worked on several games at the same time if they don't do rolling productions. <_<;

Quote
Anyway, if you don't like what we're suggesting and think our suggestions are stupid, why not tell that you don't need any suggestions and/or lock the threads from retards like me? That would save both parties their nerves.

I will politely ask you once, and only once, to not put words into people's mouths. You're making your hostility more than a little clear with this passive agressive behavior.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: MirrorHoney on June 09, 2016, 02:47:25 PM
Thanks for elaborating on the matter. I have no reason to argue anymore, thus I'm backing off from here before I'm gonna regret staying, as I'm already upset by how harsh this discussion is going (hah, like I'm not at fault of that).
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: r543 on June 09, 2016, 02:55:49 PM
Nice how @Seraphna says that my post is completely about that while only one short paragraph was, the other actually giving the requested feedback as well as mentioning some important points.

I did forget mentioning one thing yesterday, I would find it really nice if we got some kind of debug menu/level select which would allow us to play every character in every level(including things such as Carol in Lilac's version of Fortune Night). Spade and Torque's gameplay so far is mostly done, so the thing missing are the stages and story for them. Add the missing 3rd card back to Spade, make him similar to the boss and possibly unnerf his pitiful damage, rather have a little overpowered character than someone that hangs behind compared to others and we are talking about a platformer here for christ's sake.
I know about the "unbeatable stages" problem, but adding a few springs or allowing switches to be interacted with everyone is all that's really needed to get them working, sure they won't feel character optimized(which shows people why characters wouldn't go through such stages and also shows the strenghts of others), but it would get the most ouf of the current FP, giving everyone a lot of fun things to do for a while.


This isn't the first time stretch goal plans have changed.

Remember when there was meant to be a comic series? That got replaced (with improved art or voice acting? I don't exactly remember).
FP reached 25,472$ and the last goal would've been 30,000$, giving the graphical upgrade. There's a big difference here however, for one, the web comic was an extra thing just like the Gashi posters, not something that adds the game, while this content does. Also it was cancelled and we got something extra of the kickstarter that benefited the entire game. This also wasn't done after we've been waiting for something that's been promised and shown progress for almost two years now.


I don't mean to be crude, but it's not a poor business decision. Every company producing games with sequels begins production on those sequels most often during the DLC phase of the previous game, if not even earlier while the first game is being made. This is called rolling phase production, it's a basic of the industry because video games are not made with 100% of your staff working on it from start to end, certain talents only come into effect in the beginning, middle, or end of production and if you have nothing else for them to work on, they are literally sitting on their hands doing nothing.
The big difference here is that this isn't DLC as what's commonly understood as such, this is promised content not possible extra content that can be bought separately. Also they are bigger studios, having more team members and allowing different teams to work on multiple games, here we only have one coder who thought that doing the DLC now(staying behind with FP1 while the others work a bit on FP2) would work, and like expected it wouldn't.

Quote
You guys are actually telling us that losing a ton of money on delaying work that people who actually have nothing to do with FP1's development and wouldn't be able to help with it anyway is a good business decision. I want you to think about that, I mean seriously, think about that, and tell me how you think that's a good idea and what the benefit is for the cost. A cost, I should point out, you aren't actually privy too.
Wouldn't have happened if the DLC wasn't delayed for so long until there was nothing left to do. You've known that this content was required ever since February 15th 2013, the date where the kickstarter ended.


Quote
I often see people try to place the argument of "poor business decision", but I have to ask... how many video game companies have you run? Or businesses in general? How do so many people know what is and is not a good business decision, yet so many businesses go under all the time? You don't actually mean "Poor business decision", you probably mean you personally don't like what you're seeing, but those are not the same things.
Oh the typcial "you don't do any of that so you have no right to speak about this" argument. Just because we don't run one doesn't mean that we don't have the knowledge, but we all know how this discussion is going to end. Undertale anyone?

Quote
We've... again, not once stated that these will have to be paid for. I can guarantee backers will get it for free, and the talk of non-backers getting it for free for a limited time after release is being tossed around. We do thank everyone for letting us know how they feel on that subject and it IS being taken into account.
Everyone who owns the game should get this content, what about new customers or old fans who miss this "upgrade time"? Of course I'm aware that this isn't the final decision.

Quote
The exact opposite. As both Strife and I have stated several times now. The state of FP1's engine is in such a place that making a new game from the ground up is actually easier and LESS time consuming.
Funny, because part of the reason why that happens is because of the chowdren ports. Like you mentioned above, ports were never promised, yet they were prioritized, wouldn't mind if the wiiU version wouldn't exist if we all got the DLC instead.

Also gotta ask, are you really giving us the option of picking here or only trying to hide all this behind a few backers that said "yes do the separate engine", because the way you make it sound implies that this is the only way to go. Also what tells us that we aren't going to wait ages again for this DLC "complete with tons of new levels, content and story"?

After reading the new posts all I can say is that I agree with @MirrorHoney because this isn't a choice.
I'm tired of companies that look for short term profits and screw over long time fans in the process, it only goes to more corruption and rigging and only ends up with the company going down in the end, but hey who am I to say anything since I'm not the boss of one ;)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on June 09, 2016, 03:24:15 PM
Thanks for elaborating on the matter. I have no reason to argue anymore, thus I'm backing off from here before I'm gonna regret staying, as I'm already upset by how harsh this discussion is going (hah, like I'm not at fault of that).

The only people throwing bricks here are the ones who have no clue how the business end of this industry works, or salty beyond what's reasonable. You can safely count yourself out of that bunch.

To add what Seraphna said about EA, (Very insightful, by the way!) what Strife is doing is nothing new, and it's been leaked known that he was tinkering with sequel redesigns long before its big announcement. One might as well also blast Nintendo, WayForward, or any other respectable company for that matter, if they're going to give Strife heat for "not finishing what was started.".

It's a ridiculous thing to be mad over.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Dazl on June 09, 2016, 03:30:02 PM
It's less a question of should this be done that it seemed at the start, but more a question of how *best* to resolve the problem.

(Also, R, why are you so venomous here, but never to me directly? I've been trying to vouch for your rationality elsewhere for months now. Please PM me about it or something.)

Edit note: Referenced posts were removed.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: MirrorHoney on June 09, 2016, 03:50:27 PM
The only people throwing bricks here are the ones who have no clue how the business end of this industry works, or salty beyond what's reasonable. You can safely count yourself out of that bunch.
Well, I can, but only because I backed out. I'm more than fitting in both categories. <_>
(oh boy, I love hating myself so much)

One might as well also blast Nintendo, WayForward, or any other respectable company for that matter, if they're going to give Strife heat for "not finishing what was started.".

It's a ridiculous thing to be mad over.
Pretty much this. Even though it's quite natural to get mad at such setbacks, this isn't the option that'd work in this case at all. It's already stated that FP1's engine is way too FUBAR to keep working on DLCs as it was originally planned to, and considering that FP1 runs on MMF, that's more than plausible - keeping working on it is equivalent to actually eating a cactus. You don't wanna eat a cactus, do you? Strife, like any sane person, doesn't want to. This is why we need an alternative. Personally I still suggest to port FP1 to Unity, though I'm more than sure that I'm (rightfully) going to be told that it's not gonna happen as making the same game twice just for the sake of switching its engine is ridiculous.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: r543 on June 09, 2016, 03:52:32 PM
The only people throwing bricks here are the ones who have no clue how the business end of this industry works, or salty beyond what's reasonable. You can safely count yourself out of that bunch.

To add what Seraphna said about EA, (Very insightful, by the way!) what Strife is doing is nothing new, and it's been leaked known that he was tinkering with sequel redesigns long before its big announcement. One might as well also blast Nintendo, WayForward, or any other respectable company for that matter, if they're going to give Strife heat for "not finishing what was started.".

It's a ridiculous thing to be mad over.
While you might not be directly addressing me, I have to say that the big difference here is that those weren't promised things, sure in a company quite a lot of games won't make it past the concept or alpha phase, but in only a few cases they will be publically announced and sold, then suddenly getting stopped and not developed further/cancelled.

It's less a question of should this be done that it seemed at the start, but more a question of how *best* to resolve the problem.

(Also, R, why are you so venomous here, but never to me directly? I've been trying to vouch for your rationality elsewhere for months now. Please PM me about it or something.)
Because there's a huge difference between here and talking to you. You respect my opinions and view(so I do yours) don't say things that contradict next day or corrupt/rig stuff that way that you are always right or would ban/block me for disagreeing for things, the same can't be said about this forum and community(who's been only getting worse compared to what we originally had, what a shame, wonder why). I'm in no way a Freedom Planet hater, I really loved the game and the development team behind this, however seeing how all changed I wouldn't want to support Freedom Planet or Galaxytrail further.

It's nice to talk to you and I don't want to post days of what all happened and how my viewpoints on it are, yours will most likely differ, which is ok, as everyone has their own points and there are people who support my view just like there are people who support your view on this thing.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 09, 2016, 03:59:45 PM
Porting FP1 to unity would be a whole other task entirely. Maybe looked at in the future, down the road, but one that would ultimately set everything back even longer than any other option. (This just goes back to the many, many problems with MMF, which is just not a very workable engine.)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: r543 on June 09, 2016, 04:31:03 PM
Nice censoring you got there removing my second and third post.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on June 09, 2016, 05:33:01 PM
Nice censoring you got there removing my second and third post.

Maybe if your posts weren't so condescending, pretentious, and incomprehensibly venomous, that wouldn't happen? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, there's nothing wrong with that, but your spewing bile at GalaxyTrail is completely counterintuitive to what you want to accomplish. You can give them honest feedback without those layers of spite.

I mean, really, you should be thankful she's not leaving your ugly posts and drama for the general public to see; there are more eyeballs watching us on the Internet than you might realize. Private messages exist for a reason, and I wish you would use them for your own sake, if the above isn't reason enough.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 09, 2016, 06:16:23 PM
Nice censoring you got there removing my second and third post.

Take the hint in the future. And a week off from the forums.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Ashema_Bahumat on June 09, 2016, 07:24:15 PM
Take the hint in the future. And a week off from the forums.
tbh, I don't see the point in removing certain things since most of us would find them stupid, ignore it, and dislike the one who made it, which was likely what would've happened to the "censored" one that was mentioned. That said, purging a thread of dyslexia is always appreciated(haven't seen what it was before it got taken down, tho). Not questioning the kick, btw.

@everybody_whose_upset I look away for 1 day and the thread almost went to shit. The situation isn't even that bad. If they get their own games, they could still take place during the events of FP1- hell, even have parts of the story taking place before and after. And its not like they're breaking a promise to us: specifically, the kickstarter said "Spade and Torque Classic Mode Dlc", not "Story Dlc" from my recollection. Standalone games are better than that since they can be built upon to a greater degree and include more than just a classic mode. Hell, if he wanted to take it an extra step, he can make Dail and Neera playable in Spade's game and Serp playable in Torque's(assuming they get separate games, otherwise it'd have all of them on the same game). I highly doubt the likely-hood of this part, tho- I'm just being optimistic for the playable Neera dream :V . Either way, the standalone games are the most efficient way of fulfilling the promises made in the kickstarter. Its just re-imagining it in a practical way.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Raxz on June 09, 2016, 07:44:58 PM
If you want a game where every single character that matters is playable, you can always have the even more unrealistic hope that it gets one of those *Warriors spinoffs (so far there has been Hyrule Warriors, One Piece Warriors, Gundam Warriors, etc..)

Oh god I'm giving people even more ideas for silly "what if" threads.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on June 09, 2016, 07:55:27 PM
Oh god I'm giving people even more ideas for silly "what if" threads.

Don't even remind me of the numerous What If threads. That went out of control.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on June 09, 2016, 08:33:27 PM
To be well and truly honest, I must say that it seems like Strife had bitten off more than he could chew, realized it too late, and is now stuck figuring out a good way to swallow it that doesn't involve throat surgery. (That was a painful metaphor and I apologize.)


Now, I'm not trying to be rude, or anything when I say this, but I believe that Strife probably should have either brought in more people (as in programmers) for working on FP1's DLC, or have made this announcement ages ago before the FP2 reveal.


That being said, I don't really care as long as I get to see both Torque and Spade fully playable with Adventure and Classic modes. Hell, I won't even mind if I have to pay for new standalone games. I mean, "Free DLC" is a pretty unusual concept anyway, considering any DLC that would expand a game normally costs at least half the price of the base game. I can understand backers being upset if they didn't get the DLC for free (because, well, that's a large reason why they backed the game), but really. Why should people be butthurt when they should be grateful to get it for free, if at all? (I half-expect to get flamed for saying this.)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 09, 2016, 09:00:08 PM
Now, I'm not trying to be rude, or anything when I say this, but I believe that Strife probably should have either brought in more people (as in programmers) for working on FP1's DLC, or have made this announcement ages ago before the FP2 reveal.

The first is only asking to put too many hands into the pot. The other is asking for Strife to have developed the power of precognition. As when he announced FP2, he was very sure he could get this all done. We even had a production schedule worked out. No one could have seen the sheer amount of christmas-tree-light errors that spawned.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Lord Brevon on June 09, 2016, 09:00:39 PM
Maybe if your posts weren't so condescending, pretentious, and incomprehensibly venomous, that wouldn't happen? Everyone is entitled to their opinions, there's nothing wrong with that, but your spewing bile at GalaxyTrail is completely counterintuitive to what you want to accomplish. You can give them honest feedback without those layers of spite.
Answer me on this honestly.
How was he condescending?
How is he speaking with those layers of spite?

I saw nothing wrong in his posts. He expressed his opinions, is all. I want you to tell me what you saw that I couldn't, if you please.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Blayze on June 09, 2016, 09:27:40 PM
"I retire for 5 minutes, and shit hits the fan." -general gist of what Hawkeye said in Captain America: Civil War




EDIT: and now, back to my den I go. I shall remain inactive forum-wise for the next year, as planned. Goodbye.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on June 09, 2016, 10:09:07 PM
The first is only asking to put too many hands into the pot. The other is asking for Strife to have developed the power of precognition. As when he announced FP2, he was very sure he could get this all done. We even had a production schedule worked out. No one could have seen the sheer amount of christmas-tree-light errors that spawned.


tl;dr Mistakes were made.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 09, 2016, 10:15:09 PM
Answer me on this honestly.
How was he condescending?
How is he speaking with those layers of spite?

I saw nothing wrong in his posts. He expressed his opinions, is all. I want you to tell me what you saw that I couldn't, if you please.

(http://stone-circle.net/NEKO/images/archive/reaction/129182653869910767.gif)


tl;dr Mistakes were made.

Yep, and there's nothing that could have been done about it. But he couldn't have warned you about things he couldn't have seen coming until he tried to do them.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Zylphe on June 10, 2016, 08:02:23 PM
At the current time. I think it is quite nice that Freedom Planet is still getting a showing at SGDQ. Possibly with that would push it out there to the world in notice of the game play and characters. People would be more incline to buy more copies of the game if they enjoy watching it. Along with the sales from the Indiebox, Humble Bundles and other areas. GalaxyTrail should have alright exponential gain but for now it would be towards making 2 better. If I got that right. After all this is a learning experience not for the consumer but for the dev themselves. At least they are not like EA or UBISOFT.

Or worse. Konami and Capcom with a few of select franchises going down the drain in missed opportunities.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 10, 2016, 08:12:55 PM
There's a lot of devs out there that would just issue a non-apology and say they couldn't do anything. They got your money and there's nothing you could do. Here, we're willing to give refunds for those unsatisfied and looking at whole new projects just to satisfy a single promise from the Kickstarter's overflow. Personally, I don't see why some consider this an injustice when we're honestly trying.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Zylphe on June 10, 2016, 08:32:28 PM
Well I may be the minority that is fine with no refunds back to me. Because overall I am pleased no matter the outcome. I understood the risks and I took them. Which Kickstarter gave me a stern clean warning about. I rather have GalaxyTrail keep my money to put it to use.

Moreover. Its a good thing that your offering refunds to those who are displeased. I surely can't say the same about Comcept doing it at the time being with Mighty Number 9. *There are some people who are flabbergasted on how the game initially looks that alot of money went into a game whose visuals and presentations are sub-par at best.*

All in all. I figure even with Freedom Planet 1 becoming more of a success on Steam from what the reviews put it out to be and what in general people enjoyed about it *EVEN WITH ITS FLAWS* it gives hope to improve on certain aspects for the upcoming titles.

If you are insistent on doing a refund. I rather take $1 off Freedom Planet 2 when it comes out for Pre-order.  :lilacderp: But overall I am fine. As I believe this is in capable hands to do something more amazing in the future.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Carlsmith on June 11, 2016, 11:43:26 AM
Having read through the last 5 pages of this thread, I thought I may as well give my input on the matter. Now as a disclaimer, I have already been given a full refund of my purchase/backing by Strife (who, by the way, was incredibly civilized about it). I also have no interest in creating drama, arguments, or risk of being banned. That being said:

There's a lot of devs out there that would just issue a non-apology and say they couldn't do anything. They got your money and there's nothing you could do. Here, we're willing to give refunds for those unsatisfied and looking at whole new projects just to satisfy a single promise from the Kickstarter's overflow. Personally, I don't see why some consider this an injustice when we're honestly trying.

First of all, I cannot speak for all laws here, but European Union laws require that you give a full 100% refund at any time, even if the game is fully finished, without any questions. This applies to "a lot of devs" such as EA and the like, which is why EA in particular is very hesitant to do business in Germany (where the EU laws are consistently applied). US law requires that you give a refund if the product is not delivered as listed. The product "as listed" would include all the DLC, as that was fully promised by stretch goals via your Kickstarter. A few States have fully enforced this, specifically in the case of Kickstarter. I believe this will be going to the Federal level for full review "soon", which would mean that anyone who accepts crowdfunding must be VERY careful as to deliver everything they promised in a timely manner (or strictly word it as a donation and nothing more).

TL;DR: You're required to give a full refund even if you didn't want to, under the risk of a lawsuit in all major countries. However, Strife and co. have been very reasonable and rational, so any such measures would not be required. Strife personally gave me a full refund after I explained how I was dissatisfied with the product due to failing to deliver what was listed, and he has assured me that no such incidents will occur in the future with games like FP2 (which I will gladly buy if that's true).

--------------

Now, as to why people are saying this is an "injustice":

I'm going to be ridiculously blunt here and say you have not delivered what I (previously) paid for, and you've had three years to do so. I will not pretend I am knowledgeable in regards to the difficulty of delivering the product (as you've noted, it's apparently VERY difficult), but such difficulty does not excuse you from your duty to deliver. People gave you money with the guarantee (yes, that counts as a guarantee legally speaking) that you would deliver the DLC. At the time of writing this post, you have not delivered on this promise. Any talk of alternative methods such as a separate .exe does not fulfill this promise either; you would first need to get full consent from all your purchasers/backers before doing that. I personally wouldn't care how you deliver the DLC, but I'm just spouting the legal bologna here.

Anyway, now to the juicy part. I asked for a refund because I was honestly sick of waiting. I (and many others) have asked "so where's the DLC?" for years now, and we were repeatedly told "yeah it's coming along". Now, as you already explained, you have adopted a method of production that allows you to continuously work on the next project in order to ensure profit. I'm going to be a madman and say I don't care about your profit. I simply want what I was promised. If you have to burn a hole in your wallet to give me that promise, so be it. I know that sounds both mean and illogical, but that's how I feel, and I'm sure others feel like that too. As Strife told me, he's going to make sure he never makes "impossible promises" in the future, as to avoid this. Still, you still have a promise to fulfill, and you either must fulfill it, or you must refund people (and post a public announcement about the refund in reasonable locations such as Steam, the Nintendo eShop, and so on).

---------------

I'm sorry that I probably sound obnoxious or rude, but that's just how I feel. When I gave you money back in 2013, I specifically backed the game AFTER you had reached your initial goal. I backed the game because I wanted to get the game early, and be able to push towards your stretch goal of new characters and story modes. We're in 2016 now, and Strife is saying things like the DLC is "indefinitely delayed". I'm not having any of that, so I asked for a refund (and got it).
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 11, 2016, 12:31:04 PM
I'm sorry you feel that it has not been delivered. As I've stated before, we're trying to deliver on those promises. While the plan has been altered to do so, we are still delivering the DLC with those content packs as promised. Them being attached to the game was never part of the agreement, not stipulated, etc.

Please understand when Strife says "indefinitely delayed", he's being literal, not the figurative that most people take the word "indefinite" to mean. He's stating he's delaying it, but does not have a specific date in which he's delaying it to. Thus it's indefinite. Had he meant that it would never happen, he would have said cancelled.

Anyway, I'm glad you got your refund, and sorry we couldn't meet your expectations. We're going to learn from the mistakes made and deliver better products and keep our promises with more reasonable goals in the future. We're all still very new to the industry and learning from experiences we have here. I hope in the future, if you like what you see, you give us another shot.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Carlsmith on June 11, 2016, 01:07:41 PM
I'm sorry you feel that it has not been delivered. As I've stated before, we're trying to deliver on those promises. While the plan has been altered to do so, we are still delivering the DLC with those content packs as promised. Them being attached to the game was never part of the agreement, not stipulated, etc.

Please understand when Strife says "indefinitely delayed", he's being literal, not the figurative that most people take the word "indefinite" to mean. He's stating he's delaying it, but does not have a specific date in which he's delaying it to. Thus it's indefinite. Had he meant that it would never happen, he would have said cancelled.

Anyway, I'm glad you got your refund, and sorry we couldn't meet your expectations. We're going to learn from the mistakes made and deliver better products and keep our promises with more reasonable goals in the future. We're all still very new to the industry and learning from experiences we have here. I hope in the future, if you like what you see, you give us another shot.

There's no need to apologize, since everything has been sorted out for me. As I said before, I'll gladly purchase FP2, so long as it doesn't have any sort of "impossible promises" attached. Does that mean it can't have DLC? Absolutely not. It just means that if you do make DLC, don't promise it as some sort of "we'll DEFINITELY do this if you give us your money in advance" deal (AKA what's happening right now with FP1's DLC).

I'm frankly just grumpy because it's been three whole years with not much to show in regards to the DLC, and I beat the game with all 3 characters in a day or two (with something like only 15 deaths on hard mode, you really need a tougher mode on that note). That, and I was just mouthing off the generic legal-speak that applies to this stuff. I've had to get into far uglier fights with bigger companies (looking at you, NISA and EA) to get refunds when they didn't deliver the promised product. I am incredibly grateful that this time was a clean and easy process.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 11, 2016, 01:13:22 PM
Yeah, we know we made a mistake. When the Kickstarter was started, Strife didn't know he would encounter the issues he has in trying to make it. A lot of the issue have to do with the choice of engine, something we already learned from somewhat when FP2 was decided to be made in Unity with a custom built engine this time around. It allows for far more customization and easier building, so that's one of the reasons making the DLC as standalones in Unity is an attractive option to us. It severely lifts the cap off limitations that MMF2 creates over time.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on June 12, 2016, 05:47:21 AM
A forum.... turned to ash....


Geez guys, calm down...?


I have to echo Succintandpunchy: Strife, you're in a large hole at the moment.

I have to compliment on how well you're handling it. I have absolutely no idea how companies are run, let alone gaming companies, so I have absolutely no right to complain "BAD BUSINESS DECISIONS" in big, large, letters. What you're doing seems to be good.

TBH I think there's no way Strife can, at this point in time, please everyone. He can please everyone in hindsight, he can please a good portion of people at this point in time.... eh.

Keep it up, Strife. To me at least, you're doing excellently for your position.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Darkabomination on June 12, 2016, 07:15:44 AM
First off, hugs for everyone! It's been a trying time for everyone, and I commend Strife and the staff here at GT for doing their best to please everyone.

But I echo some sentiments made that not everyone's going to be happy, and that's just how it's going to go down.

Personally I'd love a new game/expansion. New levels or gimmicks would be a fresh experience.

Perhaps Torque could be put in Classic's main game eventually, but if what was said is true and I have every reason to believe it is, I would say go for the spinoff in Unity. It will be faster, more efficient, a way to show off just how much smoother it will play, and a testament to FP 2's quality in the new engine.

I would love getting to play some alternative looks at FP 1 stages with the new potential involved. Recreating some sections from the original game to maintain continuity while incorporating new segments sounds like an incredibly fun experience. Starting and ending stages with callbacks to the main game as a hybrid remix will allow for the potential Torque and Spade can bring to the table while letting fans know they weren't forgotten.

It's faster than working with the main game, brings a lot of new ideas, shows off what the characters can really do when they get to cut loose, and gives us some original story segments.

Even if it's cutting the fat. Like starting Spade's with taking out Dail's second boss and flashing back to the gaps in the story and proceeding to a new stage for the finale would be wonderful.

If it maintains the fair but tough difficulty, lengthy stages, and crazy combat, I don't care how long it is.

I'll stop now before my excitement makes this a messy post. If it helps, one fan at least can't help but be thrilled with the possibilities.

Best of luck to all of you.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Creepario on June 12, 2016, 12:02:07 PM
TBH I think there's no way Strife can, at this point in time, please everyone
somewhere i heard something similar.... hmmmm. maybe Sega? hmmm.....
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on June 14, 2016, 06:04:09 AM
So what will happen to Torque & Spade's current states in FP1, if they're made into separate games?

In order of what I call importance but what none of you probably would:


- Would they play similar / identical / radically different to how they do in FP1? (Balancing aside) Would the GAME run the same way as it did?
- Is the FP1 art style staying? Would it be FP2 art style? Or some hybrid in between?
- Would the levels/bosses/thingsinlevels be completely and totally different?
- or would the levels be only slightly changed, with some tweaks here and there, and some boss fiddling?


- Would the Torque beta be removed from the Steam branch? How about demo Spade? (Guessing yes and yes)


On another note: Isn't it possible to have completely separate executables & data folders classed under "DLC" by marketing platforms? Would it be possible (if a large usage of disk space) to have these games as a separate executable to FP1, but still classed as "DLC" by marketers? (Thinking of Steam here, because that's the only platform I know much about :P)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Scamper52596 on June 14, 2016, 06:12:29 AM
At first I felt a little skeptical over making new games instead of finishing the DLC, but the more I thought about it the more I started to like the idea. The only request I would have would be to make them worthy of being spin off games. Both characters have a lot of potential to touch upon that could expand the world of Freedom Planet. For example, I was thinking how cool it would be if Torque's game was a direct prequel to FP. We could see a couple different worlds, learn more about him as a character, get to see what his captain was like, follow him along as he tries to stop Brevon's conquest, and it could all lead to the game ending right where Freedom Planet begins to tie it in nicely. Spade of course also has plenty of scenario potential that could take place before, after, or even during FP. Basically my hope is that you do something more interesting with these characters than what you probably would have had to do if they ended up as DLC like planned.

And speaking of which, are you sure you'd want to make a separate game for each character instead of just one game with both? I feel like one of the biggest appeals of Freedom Planet is the fact that there are multiple characters to pick and play the game with, and I think it would be cool if that trend continued even for a spin off game. I guess it's not that big of a deal though.

It's too bad that the engine is giving you so much trouble. Maybe someday you can make a definitive version of the original Freedom Planet in Unity with all the characters. I know you can't do it now due to FP2 being the main focus, but perhaps when FP2 is near completion or even after it's released you'd consider creating that.

I'll support however you guys choose to move forward, whether it's completing the DLC or making spin off games. I figure that more Freedom Planet in my future can't be a bad thing, so I'm looking forward to whatever you have in store.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 14, 2016, 10:47:26 AM
There's a lot of possibilities we're shooting around. The big thing is Strife wants to make these games fit the characters and their potential. Like Torque's game could be a lot more MegaMan like in style with lots of extra SCHMUP stages as well. While Spade's story could go more along the lines of a Metroidvania. In terms of story, Torque provides us the opportunity to tell more of the prequel story, show people what happened to wind Torque and Brevon up in their situation and answer possible questions like what happened to Torque's crew. While Spade allows us the opportunity to bridge both FP1 and FP2 together by telling the story of how Spade rescued his brother Dail from mind control and restored him as the new King in place of their fallen father.

Going back and making a definitive version is definitely a thought (and eventually packaging it and the others together as one complete game), but one we'll probably look at after the DLC and FP2 are out.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Blayze on June 14, 2016, 11:53:13 AM
Just came back to check in, surprisingly calm in here. I was expecting something along the lines of World War Avalice.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Treya on June 14, 2016, 12:50:12 PM
What I'm most curious about is the art direction. Are the FP1 designs being used or not?

 I'm a lot more interested in Spades backstory than what happens between him and Dail at the end - there isn't a whole lot to say with that. Meanwhile, there's a lot of mysteries with his past, which would help build him as a character. He just doesn't feel right to be the mysterious character trope because of his said past experience with the main characters.

I don't think a Metroidvania will cover the mash2dash issue, but I guess additional abilities could add more depth?

#keepslopephysicsplz
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on June 14, 2016, 01:14:47 PM
On the subject of artstyle, I think Strife already mentioned that it's a lot easier for him to reuse the FP1 assets for his standalone games instead of using entirely new ones. Maybe some new assets might be added with the FP1 ones, but I'm not sure if they're minor.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on June 14, 2016, 03:06:28 PM
What I'm most curious about is the art direction. Are the FP1 designs being used or not?

We'll determine as we go what works best for each thing. If you're referring to whether you'll see the FP2 costumes instead of the FP1 costumes... no, that won't be the case.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Zylphe on June 16, 2016, 09:22:22 PM
It would be a nifty touch to have something special unlocking for FP 2 if you have FP 1 and the Side games.
Sort of like .Hack series.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on June 17, 2016, 06:10:21 AM
It would be a nifty touch to have something special unlocking for FP 2 if you have FP 1 and the Side games.
Sort of like .Hack series.

Failing that, a discount would get all of us going :P

5% OFF  
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on June 17, 2016, 08:48:17 AM
A discount for the standalones if you already own the game would be a good idea.
Spoiler (hover to show)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Prototype on June 17, 2016, 04:33:26 PM
It would be a nifty touch to have something special unlocking for FP 2 if you have FP 1 and the Side games.
Sort of like .Hack series.

Secret FP2 Brevon boss fight anyone?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: H3adHunt3r on June 18, 2016, 09:28:13 AM
I'm glad to see FP2 is progressing very well.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: SonicDolphin117 on June 19, 2016, 09:37:23 AM
I'm pretty disappointed about this news, but I'm not going to get mad over it. If this situation is putting you in a struggle, then do what you believe is best for the developers and for the fans. I'd be wrong to get angry about a situation that I don't fully understand.

I just want Spade. FP1, separate game or FP2, give me Spade. I really want to play that character.


 :spade:

Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: KMetalMind on July 01, 2016, 10:10:12 AM
Hi there!

I´ve been a fan of Freedom Planet since I played it, who has been sometimes reading the forums but I haven´t commented yet.

I just wanted to throw out an idea: If releasing Torque/Spade on FP1 is troublesome, and you need to work on FP2 more closely, why not use FP2 engine instead of making a different one? You could focus a lot more on FP2, and release both characters as some kind of demo/prequel to FP2. It could be free for people with FP1 (or for everybody if you feel so), and just refresh with Torque the FP1 story and finish to tell the Spade side of the story for FP2, which seems to be important.

That´s just an idea though, not knowing all the work that´s done on FP1, FP Spade/Torque or FP2.

IMO, you could release them as they currently are on FP1 too. Just add them as "extras" with some kind of warning ingame.

Good luck getting them out and really thanks for that masterpiece of a game that is Freedom Planet.  ;D
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on July 01, 2016, 05:10:34 PM
I just wanted to throw out an idea: If releasing Torque/Spade on FP1 is troublesome, and you need to work on FP2 more closely, why not use FP2 engine instead of making a different one? You could focus a lot more on FP2, and release both characters as some kind of demo/prequel to FP2. It could be free for people with FP1 (or for everybody if you feel so), and just refresh with Torque the FP1 story and finish to tell the Spade side of the story for FP2, which seems to be important.

That's sort of what is already being planned: Prequel side games built on what they're using for the sequel. I guess you haven't read much of the discussion?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 03, 2016, 02:03:01 PM
I just wanted to throw out an idea: If releasing Torque/Spade on FP1 is troublesome, and you need to work on FP2 more closely, why not use FP2 engine instead of making a different one? You could focus a lot more on FP2, and release both characters as some kind of demo/prequel to FP2. It could be free for people with FP1 (or for everybody if you feel so), and just refresh with Torque the FP1 story and finish to tell the Spade side of the story for FP2, which seems to be important.

This is exactly what Strife is suggesting we do.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on July 04, 2016, 12:50:36 AM
Don't worry, Taxman is lending his godly powers. It'll be fine.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frieza2000 on July 04, 2016, 03:24:01 PM
I wasn't a backer, but I'll throw in my two cents anyway.

I fully support putting the Torque and Spade content into a new engine more suited to their style of play and less onerous to code for. I'm particularly interested in seeing what you'd do with Torque, as there are very few speedy platforming shooters out there (Jazz Jackrabbit is all that immediately comes to mind), so I don't want your hands to be bound by existing code constructs. Whether the new content is something we access from the FP1 menu or from a separate .exe file isn't important.

Seraphna's comment about Spades's story was a little unclear to me, so I just want to state that my preference is that it stick to filling in the story gaps in FP1 as originally intended. The game's story definitely feels incomplete in its current state and to move on without filling in those holes would be to its determent. Going further and including content that bridges FP1 and FP2 would be a much appreciated bonus, but don't leave the first game's unfinished plot threads hanging.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 04, 2016, 09:07:03 PM
I feel I should point my out 2 things.

1. There was no original intention for any story mode with Spade. (Not that there wouldn't be one, but how it would play out was never declared when it was announced... And as far as I know there has never been any published disclosure as to what the plans would be.) As far as I know some scripts were thrown around, but nothing was ever finalized.

2. The plan was always to show how Spade rescues Dail, however, which is in fact a missing part of the story.

Not entirely sure how this doesn't correlate with what I said.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on July 06, 2016, 11:51:29 AM
Well, my opinion is that people would generally be fine with separate games, BUT only if they are of the same presentation quality. I don't think they would take kindly to things like text-only conversations without voice acting.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on July 06, 2016, 03:55:21 PM
I wouldn't mind text-only dialog. If some people have a problem with the lack voice overs (which doesn't affect the gameplay, just to make that perfectly clear), then that's fine. But asking for the standalone games to have voiced dialog (or else they wont play them) at this point is just being unreasonable. Especially when FP2 is being worked on and voice overs are currently being recorded for that game.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 07, 2016, 05:32:43 AM
Well, my opinion is that people would generally be fine with separate games, BUT only if they are of the same presentation quality. I don't think they would take kindly to things like text-only conversations without voice acting.

That would pretty much rely entirely on Sean and Patrick's schedules.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Magikarpador on July 07, 2016, 02:46:57 PM
As someone who got into the game well after the whole kickstarter, I'm worried about getting gypped. I've had it on Wii U for quite awhile, and I just recently bought it on Steam so I could play with what their currently is of Torque and see what Milla's Adventure mode is like. While I do love the game, and I'm sure I'd end up supporting whatever form future releases of it take, it'd be a bit frustrating to have to buy entire new games just to get content that was promised to be free.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 07, 2016, 03:50:46 PM
Considering all that the original DLC had planned was 1-2 new stages each and the ability to play the characters in the old one, this should not be a big concern when the trade off is two, as you put it, entire new games. We've been talking it over and we will most likely, eventually at least put out a classic mode for each officially in the original build of the game so people can at least play the characters in that game, but we want to focus the story content into fully new presentations with the new engine.

I know it can be a little frustrating, but the payoff is more than a little awesome. Think of this like InFamous: Last Light, a standalone game that was originally intended as DLC for InFamous: Second Son, instead of merely getting to play the promised character, we were given a complete game with it's own story that provided a prequel to Second Son, complete with a PvP and training mode that previously didn't exist either. Minor disappointment of getting no new DLC, major bonus in a much better thing than we would have originally gotten.

I can also promise, at least for the backers, that they will be getting this for free, it's a tier they already paid for and no matter the form, they're getting it. As for non-backers, it won't be a huge burden. We're trying to figure out the best pay scheme / deal for people who already have the game, etc. Perhaps an advanced discount to people who already own Freedom Planet or even a free period in which to grab the new games. On top of it we'll of course bundle all three into a single package at a reduced cost (perhaps even equating to the original $14.99 the game is selling for).

Trust me when I say we do not want to gyp you, we absolutely want to deliver the best content possible (and actually be able to deliver it! Which is the problem that this resolution is for.) This isn't a better than nothing situation, so much as a "much better than we can actually fulfill to the original concept put forth" deal.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Magikarpador on July 07, 2016, 04:18:18 PM
Thank you for the response.

I'd be completely satisfied with it being handled like that. Either getting the characters in some form in the original a game or a special deal for people who already own it would do a ton to curb potential backlash, and with that, I do agree that new games centered around the characters would really be an improvement over just DLC.

Can't wait for Tails' Adventure starring Torque.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NBlast on July 07, 2016, 06:08:41 PM
Considering all that the original DLC had planned was 1-2 new stages each and the ability to play the characters in the old one, this should not be a big concern when the trade off is two, as you put it, entire new games. We've been talking it over and we will most likely, eventually at least put out a classic mode for each officially in the original build of the game so people can at least play the characters in that game, but we want to focus the story content into fully new presentations with the new engine.

I know it can be a little frustrating, but the payoff is more than a little awesome. Think of this like InFamous: Last Light, a standalone game that was originally intended as DLC for InFamous: Second Son, instead of merely getting to play the promised character, we were given a complete game with it's own story that provided a prequel to Second Son, complete with a PvP and training mode that previously didn't exist either. Minor disappointment of getting no new DLC, major bonus in a much better thing than we would have originally gotten.

I can also promise, at least for the backers, that they will be getting this for free, it's a tier they already paid for and no matter the form, they're getting it. As for non-backers, it won't be a huge burden. We're trying to figure out the best pay scheme / deal for people who already have the game, etc. Perhaps an advanced discount to people who already own Freedom Planet or even a free period in which to grab the new games. On top of it we'll of course bundle all three into a single package at a reduced cost (perhaps even equating to the original $14.99 the game is selling for).

Trust me when I say we do not want to gyp you, we absolutely want to deliver the best content possible (and actually be able to deliver it! Which is the problem that this resolution is for.) This isn't a better than nothing situation, so much as a "much better than we can actually fulfill to the original concept put forth" deal.

Several good ideas here. I would still like to stress out how much a bad idea is to offer the DLC/separate games for money upfront. It's simply would not end well from gamer's perspective (expectations, habits, industry-wise nickel and dimeing)

I could be mitigated well with some of those above ideas, I believe that, if you will eventually go for paid route, two of those three events below should occur:

A) DLC will be free for around a month for all owners (Like Skullgirls DLC. I believe that all people who would potentially made the most bad PR from DLC not being free would be completely neutralized by this)
B) Giving classic mode for Spade and Torque for FP1 before paid content hits (this will satisfy, I believe, most people anyway, whatever additional paid DLC/games will be made.)
C) $15 bundle for FP1 + DLC/games (doesn't screw up new people interested in the game too much)

2 out of 3 and I think that 99.9% of people will be good with this. I'm not an expert, I'm only fan and enthusiast of games and gaming, but my observations of various screw ups of other indie devs, I'm really afraid that this could end up messy. In age of internet outrage an indie developer needs to thread carefully, because one bad move can turn everything to the worse (look: Overkill studios, Superhot VR drama etc.). I know that business sometimes likes to go with opposite direction where RP should go, but Freedom Planet's streight is in it's great Word of Mouth and it would be an extreme shame to lose that.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Raxz on July 08, 2016, 12:25:45 AM
In age of internet outrage an indie developer needs to thread carefully, because one bad move can turn everything to the worse (look: Overkill studios, Superhot VR drama etc.).

Also sometimes drama continues even when you do deliver.

Lab Zero angered a bunch of people by taking too long to release a Linux version of Skullgirls. It exists now, but a lot of people are still filled with bitterness for various reasons. And then they "got in trouble" again for crowdfunding their next game instead of using the profits of Skullgirls, even though I'm pretty sure all of the profits from Skullgirls went right back into itself, hence none being left for anything else. Correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

I'm not saying these people are justified to be so unreasonably pissed off, I'm just saying these are the waters we're treading in.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 08, 2016, 11:06:27 AM
Also sometimes drama continues even when you do deliver.

Lab Zero angered a bunch of people by taking too long to release a Linux version of Skullgirls. It exists now, but a lot of people are still filled with bitterness for various reasons. And then they "got in trouble" again for crowdfunding their next game instead of using the profits of Skullgirls, even though I'm pretty sure all of the profits from Skullgirls went right back into itself, hence none being left for anything else. Correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

I'm not saying these people are justified to be so unreasonably pissed off, I'm just saying these are the waters we're treading in.

I can say so far we're not planning on seeking any new crowdfunding. We've been able to fund our next game on the first's profits. That being said, we're not exactly rolling in money at the end of the day.

I think I should also take a moment to remind everyone that nothing has been finalized yet. While this is the path we're considering, Strife hasn't pulled any triggers yet and won't for a while until he has the time to seriously consider what he wants to do.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NBlast on July 08, 2016, 04:38:39 PM
Also sometimes drama continues even when you do deliver.

Lab Zero angered a bunch of people by taking too long to release a Linux version of Skullgirls. It exists now, but a lot of people are still filled with bitterness for various reasons. And then they "got in trouble" again for crowdfunding their next game instead of using the profits of Skullgirls, even though I'm pretty sure all of the profits from Skullgirls went right back into itself, hence none being left for anything else. Correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

I'm not saying these people are justified to be so unreasonably pissed off, I'm just saying these are the waters we're treading in.

Personally I'm not familiar with situations you mentioned. Probably it flew under my radar. Only recent internet storm around Skullgirls I can remind myself, was about those replaced frames of animation toning down the fanservice. There was a bit of noise around that. I believe that Lab Zero didn't communicated well enough what they are exactly changing Still, many people's reactions were extremely overblown and accusations of (self)censorship don't really hold up when only 3 frames of animations were changed, leaving rest of numerous pantyshots and bounces in place.

I think I should also take a moment to remind everyone that nothing has been finalized yet. While this is the path we're considering, Strife hasn't pulled any triggers yet and won't for a while until he has the time to seriously consider what he wants to do.

This is exactly why I'm forming opinion (read: bothering and complaining) now, when there is still time to be heard and provide feedback for the ideas ;)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on July 08, 2016, 06:26:27 PM
The real question is obviously "Where's my playable Brevon DLC"
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 09, 2016, 03:11:28 AM
The real question is obviously "Where's my playable Brevon DLC"

With the playable Stumpy DLC.

And Mayor Zao's +5 Love Quest.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on July 11, 2016, 12:43:59 AM
Considering all that the original DLC had planned was 1-2 new stages each and the ability to play the characters in the old one, this should not be a big concern when the trade off is two, as you put it, entire new games. We've been talking it over and we will most likely, eventually at least put out a classic mode for each officially in the original build of the game so people can at least play the characters in that game, but we want to focus the story content into fully new presentations with the new engine.

I would be all for the characters getting finished Classic Modes, at least. People already use cheats to access Torque and Spade, so unlocking them in an official capacity would be a good thing.

Granted, I understand this is all still up in the air, but if you guys went that route + side games for their stories, I'm +1ing that it's a cool idea and should satisfy people while they wait for the games.

Also sometimes drama continues even when you do deliver.

Lab Zero angered a bunch of people by taking too long to release a Linux version of Skullgirls. It exists now, but a lot of people are still filled with bitterness for various reasons. And then they "got in trouble" again for crowdfunding their next game instead of using the profits of Skullgirls, even though I'm pretty sure all of the profits from Skullgirls went right back into itself, hence none being left for anything else. Correct me if I'm wrong about all of this.

I'm not saying these people are justified to be so unreasonably pissed off, I'm just saying these are the waters we're treading in.

I didn't know there was drama around the Linux port. (Which works beautifully! I'm happy it exists.) It took the Shantae games at least a year or two to get proper PC ports, and I didn't hear any complaints of the sort over it.

This is starting to sound like a regular thing with Kickstarter games. Hyper Light Drifter had tons of anger for locking the frame-rate to 30 FPS, the fan drama we've all seen over Freedom Planet's DLC, the overbearing hyperbole drowning legitimate criticism against Mighty No. 9, etc.

Hopefully the reasonable fans outnumber the entitled babies who start these fusses.

Personally I'm not familiar with situations you mentioned. Probably it flew under my radar. Only recent internet storm around Skullgirls I can remind myself, was about those replaced frames of animation toning down the fanservice. There was a bit of noise around that. I believe that Lab Zero didn't communicated well enough what they are exactly changing Still, many people's reactions were extremely overblown and accusations of (self)censorship don't really hold up when only 3 frames of animations were changed, leaving rest of numerous pantyshots and bounces in place.

People were mad over a few frames being toned down? That's just silly. There's still so much breast bouncing, that I don't feel comfortable playing as Cerebella whenever I have a moment to play SkullGirls on my laptop at college.

(Some) players in the "don't censor mah animu" crowd get really noisy over skin exposure in video games to a creepy degree. It's one thing to be mad over whole costumes going missing from a western release, but over a few edits is ridiculous.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: MirrorHoney on July 11, 2016, 03:42:52 AM
Hopefully the reasonable fans outnumber the entitled babies who start these fusses.
Even if entitled babies will end up in a minority, they'd still be way to much of blabbermouths to not to be noticed over the naturally calmer crowd of reasonable fans.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NBlast on July 11, 2016, 01:35:18 PM

This is starting to sound like a regular thing with Kickstarter games. Hyper Light Drifter had tons of anger for locking the frame-rate to 30 FPS, the fan drama we've all seen over Freedom Planet's DLC, the overbearing hyperbole drowning legitimate criticism against Mighty No. 9, etc.

Hopefully the reasonable fans outnumber the entitled babies who start these fusses.

I would argue that Hyper Light Drifter's 30FPS lock is still a pretty big deal. If you find it okay, then good for you, but I heard from several sources that it is really detrimental to the game's controls making it noticeably less responsive for that kind of combat.

It's one thing to be mad over whole costumes going missing from a western release, but over a few edits is ridiculous.

That's basically my line of opinion. I'm really not a fan of censorship, even when I personally find the content questionable. Translators and localisers should be as truthful to the original material possible and I really despise media pressure against certain games as dishonest and hurtful to the industry in the long run. That said, someone should tell internet arguers to "pick your battles" and don't throw a tantrum over perfectly justifiable and minor changes.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Kain on July 11, 2016, 03:28:17 PM
I would argue that Hyper Light Drifter's 30FPS lock is still a pretty big deal. If you find it okay, then good for you, but I heard from several sources that it is really detrimental to the game's controls making it noticeably less responsive for that kind of combat.

See, you'd think that, but HLD actually controls well enough that in practice, the 30 FPS lock really doesn't matter. It would be preferable if it ran at 60 FPS, that much is true, but it's not as much a big deal as you'd think it would be from the internet outrage surrounding it and what TotalBiscuit may have said regarding the FPS lock.

As a semi-related addendum, Nuclear Throne also has a 30 FPS lock. It is a rather fast-paced roguelike shooter where fast reactions are expected as soon as you start playing the game. Given the frantic pace, NT still controls nicely. In comparison, HLD has a slower, more methodical pace with the combat.

In short, I disagree with you.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on July 11, 2016, 09:47:45 PM
Framerate only matters in a game that requires quick reactions. :V
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on July 12, 2016, 03:58:20 AM
Frame-rate really depends on the game and how it handles that. 3D Zelda games have been locked to 30 for the longest time, and so are most of the Souls' series on consoles. In Zelda or Halo's cases, it's so well smoothed over, the average player couldn't tell the difference. In Dark Souls 1's case, that doesn't happen, but the game's plenty responsive despite that.

That said, 60 FPS always looks and feels better where possible, and for anything involving AR or VR, 60-90 FPS minimum is necessary or it becomes physically uncomfortable. I prefer it myself, but it's not always "required" in every case.

I'm assuming Hyper Light Drifter wasn't programmed with Delta Timing in mind, so it probably wasn't easy for the developers to include an elegantly implemented FPS slider of sorts to keep the options-spoiled end of the PC crowd happy. (Thankfully, Freedom Planet 2 takes delta timing into account.) Some PC players get legit mad if they can't uncap a game's frame-rate, so I imagine backers and non-backers alike were causing the fuss.

As for me, since I own the game, it plays really well at 30FPS; I didn't feel held back in any way by the frame-rate. It helps that I have an Xbox controller, which the game is designed around using effectively. I personally feel the keyboard controls, while thoughtfully designed, are more difficult to adjust to on a subconscious level.

Even if entitled babies will end up in a minority, they'd still be way to much of blabbermouths to not to be noticed over the naturally calmer crowd of reasonable fans.

This can be pretty bad on social media, for as great as it is to reach out to fans. (Meat puppets in the crowd don't help either.) Anybody remember how much vitriol there was when Vib Ribbon was teased but not put up for sale on the PSN?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on July 12, 2016, 04:33:38 AM
Since we're on the topic of framerate and complaints regarding it, I feel like I should explain something about that before people start throwing baseless arguments around (and derail the topic).

The big sore point with 30FPS vs 60FPS is what is known as Input Lag. Or, to be more precise - maximum Input Lag - the highest amount of time between when you press a button and see the result of doing so. This has to do with the fact that user input is only processed during a very short time period at the start of a frame, and the results are drawn afterwards. If you happen to press the button after that short period, you will have to wait all the way until the next frame to have your input processed, and then until after that frame's rendering phase to see it. As a result, maximum Input Lag is equal to roughly the amount of time it takes to work through 2 frames, which is about 66ms at 30FPS and 33ms at 60FPS.

Some people never notice the difference, but there is a large segment of others that are sensitive to it, especially in what is known as "twitchy" games. Those people don't like 30FPS locks.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on July 13, 2016, 11:43:49 PM
Freedom Planet runs at 60 FPS, and some speed runners still notice input lag. (Although that has more do with the game's logic or input system.) I can't notice it, but that's because I'm not into speedrunning it and seeing the game's insane bugs for myself.

Since it's probably relevant, would delta timing help at all when it comes to input? Or would that still be tied to the frame itself? Would you count HLD as a "twitchy" kind of game? This is the first I've heard more about input lag, so it's an interesting point.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on July 14, 2016, 02:07:32 AM
Since it's probably relevant, would delta timing help at all when it comes to input? Or would that still be tied to the frame itself? Would you count HLD as a "twitchy" kind of game? This is the first I've heard more about input lag, so it's an interesting point.

Not really. All delta timing does is compensate for variable framerate by measuring time using the machine's inner clock rather than counting frames. That way you don't get a wonky speed-up of the entire game when you increase the framerate. The delay to seeing stuff depends on the length of the frames, and I don't think there is a way around it. Even if you processed game logic and rendering at the same time (with multiple cores), you would still have to wait until the next frame finishes rendering to see what's in the current frame's game logic.

From what I've heard, HLD is somewhat twitchy, requiring fast dodging and precise attack timing, so it isn't a surprise people noticed the lag in responsiveness.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Anubis Grey the Reaper on July 16, 2016, 02:53:57 AM
okay, i just skipped to the end to post this, im gonna go back over all the other posts after reading but

i am 100% behind the developer. if he wishes to split it into two (or more) side games, i'll pay for (because i am not a backer, i was not aware this game even existed until i saw cobonroni456 playing the demo on youtube.) and i will play this one way or another. if i have to wait for the dlc, well i've waited this long. i put a lot of faith into you guys, and i realize it must be some kind of difficult to make a game, meet goals, and get things out on time.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Creepario on July 16, 2016, 07:59:20 AM
@Seraphna What interests me is: Would Strife use Fusion 2.0 for the DLC with the already created assets/codes? Or would he use the new Unity engine for FP2, or even a new tool for that? (Sry, if that was already answered, i got lost here with the topics)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 16, 2016, 12:19:22 PM
Most likely the new engine.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: skeweresketches on July 16, 2016, 10:53:24 PM
just thinking this recently why not try another idea from sega did like the lock on feature used in sonic 3 with knuckles like making spade or torque playable in there stand alone games lock on freedom planet to unlock them just something i like to talk out not sure if that's a good idea to try
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on July 17, 2016, 06:31:31 AM
just thinking this recently why not try another idea from sega did like the lock on feature used in sonic 3 with knuckles like making spade or torque playable in there stand alone games lock on freedom planet to unlock them just something i like to talk out not sure if that's a good idea to try

I can't see why anyone would do that in the digital age, where you can patch games post-launch.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 18, 2016, 11:53:37 AM
just thinking this recently why not try another idea from sega did like the lock on feature used in sonic 3 with knuckles like making spade or torque playable in there stand alone games lock on freedom planet to unlock them just something i like to talk out not sure if that's a good idea to try

Mainly because we don't have cartridges? Also Sonic 3 with Knuckles was actually more or less just unlocking data already in the game. Sonic 3 and S&N were originally a single title, but SEGA felt it went too long so they broke it up. Here we're dealing with content that hasn't actually been made, and that doesn't fit the data already present.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: skeweresketches on July 18, 2016, 11:53:51 PM
yeah i guess that's true what about the sonic 4 episodes they sort of have the same thing expect without cartridges or disk
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Creepario on July 19, 2016, 06:31:38 AM
yeah i guess that's true what about the sonic 4 episodes they sort of have the same thing expect without cartridges or disk
The thing is it's not easy to do it if he uses the FP2 engine for it.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on July 21, 2016, 02:59:58 PM
Okay, reeeeeal talk.


...Where's my playable Bubsy DLC? I need to have the pleasure of beating Brevon as Bubsy. :V
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on July 21, 2016, 04:28:16 PM
Okay, reeeeeal talk.


...Where's my playable Bubsy DLC? I need to have the pleasure of beating Brevon as Bubsy. :V

I don't think either engine supports pig enemies walking upside-down on ceilings. :P
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Iron Curtain on July 22, 2016, 10:40:19 AM
Okay, my 2¢, which will be short and sweet:

As long as people who paid for Freedom Planet, whether they be backers or post-release customers, are entitled to the standalone Torque and Spade game free of charge, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: tekkaman1 on July 24, 2016, 10:23:36 AM
Hello everyone,

Here's my take on this. In the past games were being sold as a "complete" game. For the most part this was true. There was sometimes even a team of beta testers that just tested the game for bugs and their names appeared in the credits.

Nowadays things are different. When online stores appeared it gave the opportunity for almost everyone to make their own game. Something that wasn't possible in the past. While this is great because we have the chance to play not only more games than ever it also gave the chance to play games that never would've existed otherwise. And many talented people making these games probably would've been forever unknown. There is however one big disadvantage. Developers tend to release incomplete and buggy games. So they start earning money before the product is finished. I have many games that have been incomplete for years and the developer is already selling a different game before finishing the first one that got them known. And what they do is every six months they post a screenshot saying: Look, we did something! But the truth is, it's never finished. They just like to tease you.

Now lets talk about Freedom Planet. Freedom Planet is a great game and I really enjoyed playing it. At release time it had some serious slowdown issues.  This was acceptable since it's their first game. I think in less than a year it was fixed. Now the characters. I think if it was said from the beginning that Spade and Torq would be playable they should be included free of charge.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on July 24, 2016, 04:41:12 PM
I don't think either engine supports pig enemies walking upside-down on ceilings. :P


A man can dream, can't he?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frisktaker on July 31, 2016, 09:19:08 PM
There's a lot of possibilities we're shooting around. The big thing is Strife wants to make these games fit the characters and their potential. Like Torque's game could be a lot more MegaMan like in style with lots of extra SCHMUP stages as well. While Spade's story could go more along the lines of a Metroidvania. In terms of story, Torque provides us the opportunity to tell more of the prequel story, show people what happened to wind Torque and Brevon up in their situation and answer possible questions like what happened to Torque's crew. While Spade allows us the opportunity to bridge both FP1 and FP2 together by telling the story of how Spade rescued his brother Dail from mind control and restored him as the new King in place of their fallen father.

Going back and making a definitive version is definitely a thought (and eventually packaging it and the others together as one complete game), but one we'll probably look at after the DLC and FP2 are out.
So Torque would be like a Freedom Planet 0, and Spade would be a Freedom Planet 1.5? Ohmygosh that sounds amazing. 'Course, I don't actually have the game, as I've been holding out hope for a 3ds release, but I'm at the point that I'm considering just giving in and getting it on steam for christmas. Either way, I'd love this idea. If Strife can pull it off, this way leads to more content overall. I'm a big fan of metroidvanias, for one,(its the open world aspect). As far as the torque one, maybe Strife could draw inspiration from his older game that has the Chasers in it. (Looked it up. It's called Christmas Time Heroes, and the mission-based gameplay is interesting, and fitting for Torque, and the Chasers in general. Just imagine playing as Torque with his Freedom Planet mechanics, fighting to preserve peace in the galaxy.) Just some suggestions. I hope Strife reads this, because so far, this topic is mostly negative, with a few sane people thrown in. I wish him and the rest of Galaxy Trail good luck, because they are awesome.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ItalianGamer97 on August 01, 2016, 01:46:35 PM
Y'know, I actually wouldn't mind if Torque and Spade got their own standalone games. But, as someone who has the game on Steam and has been waiting forever for the DLC, It would be nice to either get both standalone games for free or with a 50% off discount or something like that. Getting the games for free when I have a copy of FP would be ideal.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frisktaker on August 01, 2016, 01:59:52 PM
Y'know, I actually wouldn't mind if Torque and Spade got their own standalone games. But, as someone who has the game on Steam and has been waiting forever for the DLC, It would be nice to either get both standalone games for free or with a 50% off discount or something like that. Getting the games for free when I have a copy of FP would be ideal.
to me, it depends on how big they are. If they're full-on games, then it probably wouldn't be unreasonable for it to cost a little money. If they're short side things, then yes, they should be free for at least fps owners. Honestly when I first saw this topic I was disappointed, but the moment I read their plans to turn torque and spades stories into a prequel and interquel respectively, I was literally bouncing with glee.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: r543 on August 01, 2016, 04:51:34 PM
'Course, I don't actually have the game, as I've been holding out hope for a 3ds release, but I'm at the point that I'm considering just giving in and getting it on steam for christmas. As far as the torque one, maybe Strife could draw inspiration from his older game that has the Chasers in it. (Looked it up. It's called Christmas Time Heroes, and the mission-based gameplay is interesting, and fitting for Torque, and the Chasers in general.

Just some suggestions. I hope Strife reads this, because so far, this topic is mostly negative, with a few sane people thrown in. I wish him and the rest of Galaxy Trail good luck, because they are awesome.
This would be true if those people wouldn't have thier reason, ever wondered where so many of the veteran members went?
Doubt that this will mean more content as Strife's working on FP2 and how dare we request him to finish the extra content when he's all busy with FP2. That and he has been trying to remove as much from the past as possible.

If they're full-on games, then it probably wouldn't be unreasonable for it to cost a little money.
Oh it's not unreasonable to make promised Kickstarter content that should've been out at launch paid?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Dazl on August 01, 2016, 05:15:30 PM
A number went to a handful of Discord servers.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frisktaker on August 01, 2016, 05:33:55 PM
This would be true if those people wouldn't have thier reason, ever wondered where so many of the veteran members went?
Doubt that this will mean more content as Strife's working on FP2 and how dare we request him to finish the extra content when he's all busy with FP2. That and he has been trying to remove as much from the past as possible.
Oh it's not unreasonable to make promised Kickstarter content that should've been out at launch paid?
keep in mind, I said if it was a full game, it wouldn't be unreasonable. Not to mention theyve said it would be free to backers, and possibly to everyone. All I was saying is that if it was a full game, it might be reasonable to cost money for nonbackers/people who don't own the game. Keep in mind I'm not strife, its entirely possible it would be absolutely free, I'm just saying I'd be willing to pay a couple dollars for a prequel to freedom planet. Because I'd be getting a lot more than just a simple torque play through of fp, I'd be getting a new game altogether. Again, they've said it will be free for backers, and possibly for people who own fps. But it wouldn't be too bad for people who were just buying the prequel to pay for it. Honestly, this way we get two whole new games, and free for backers, so why complain? Heck, let's be honest, we mostly care about torque story for the stuff that comes before fps anyway, right? This way, not only do we get torque and Spade, we get so much more. Anyway, I'm excited, so very excited!
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NiGHTcapD on August 02, 2016, 07:26:00 PM
Just going to put this out there:
A code or something for the backers to give them even the slightest discount would keep me from getting miffed. About the whole thing, I'm not angry or salty or anything. Technically I saved five bucks already, more would be cool but that's really all I can think to ask for.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on August 05, 2016, 09:16:17 PM
This would be true if those people wouldn't have thier reason, ever wondered where so many of the veteran members went?
Doubt that this will mean more content as Strife's working on FP2 and how dare we request him to finish the extra content when he's all busy with FP2. That and he has been trying to remove as much from the past as possible.
Oh it's not unreasonable to make promised Kickstarter content that should've been out at launch paid?

You're continuing to be unreasonable and trolling. Especially trying to claim that DLC, which was specifically noted to come post launch, should have been out at launch. Due to your history on the forums, I'm issuing you a single, soft warning. Be civil or don't post.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: noah on August 10, 2016, 08:57:42 PM
Well, late but not DEAD! HAHAHAHA!!!

i'm not an backer or whatever.
but i do like this game, and i'm realy sad or frustrated(or mad, who knows?) about these news...

i can't realy say that i understand your side, since i'm still an newbie on gamedev stuff...

but surely, one thing that you have to consider, is wether(is this word right?! lol.) the fans will accept it as well.
i mean, i can acc it, some ppl here may as well.
but... what about other ppl...?

after what happened to inafune, i'm kinda of you know... preocupied(more like preocucaked) with the kickstarter backed games... specialy the 2 that i was watching closely(this and shovel)
i fear that the fantsunamy may end up eating up the games i like, and it end up only lasting 1 or 2 games before it's all over...
well i hope you choose the right choice and that fp will have many more games!
and remember! even an little snail can make HUGE change!

btw, my saying on the matter...
as long as the wii u gets milla's story mode, i'll b ok with anything.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on August 11, 2016, 09:44:40 PM
...Why did you make your post entirely in large, bold letters?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Mask on August 12, 2016, 12:17:19 AM
I think :spade: and :torque: are so central to the game it won't feel complete without them.

I consider Freedom Planet to be something of a magnum opus, among the best games I can name. I think it is well worth adding the extra content and finishing its story, for the benefit of the game, current players, and future players.

The game is plenty of fun, but fixing a couple of bugs with Millia and one or two of the bosses would still be very beneficial.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frisktaker on August 12, 2016, 12:42:04 PM
Well, I now have this game(it's currently downloading as I type this.), And I'd like to point out that they've said they might still give them Classic Modes(Which makes no sense to me, but whatever.) So there's really no reason to complain, given that the new games might even be free, so you're actually getting MORE than expected.
Really though, what is there that is so interesting about Spade and Torques story? My guess is most of the things we'd learn deal with things that happened before(Torque) and after(Spade) anyway. This format allows even more new plot to exist. Rather than one new level and SHMUP, we get an all-out prequel. Rather than one new level to resolve the Spade/Dail plot, we get a whole game that also connects to FP2. What is there not to like?
Anyway, back to waiting for the download to finish for me.  ;D
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: noah on August 12, 2016, 04:18:31 PM
Well, I now have this game(it's currently downloading as I type this.), And I'd like to point out that they've said they might still give them Classic Modes(Which makes no sense to me, but whatever.) So there's really no reason to complain, given that the new games might even be free, so you're actually getting MORE than expected.
Really though, what is there that is so interesting about Spade and Torques story? My guess is most of the things we'd learn deal with things that happened before(Torque) and after(Spade) anyway. This format allows even more new plot to exist. Rather than one new level and SHMUP, we get an all-out prequel. Rather than one new level to resolve the Spade/Dail plot, we get a whole game that also connects to FP2. What is there not to like?
Anyway, back to waiting for the download to finish for me.  ;D

that's why i don't complain about the dlc coming or not to fp1.
if they use fp1, they will be limited...
if not, they can do something better...
i said that it would be cool to at least release millas story for the wii u, because i think that way, the fans would not b that mad...
and it would at least release the story mode of the 3 main characters...

but i just saw millas story on YT, it was not that big of an deal...
maybe cuz they were limited by fp1, like i just said?

but i was xpecting an xplanation of what happened to millas parents, why lilac gets kinda sad when milla makes her wish after sky batallion, and why lilac and carol leaved the red scarfes(again is this right?! LOL)...

like, i always thought that lilac, spade and carol did something that ended up affecting milla's parents(mayb killing them?)...
but that just my fanfic side jumping to conclusions... like always...

btw, this little "question about milla" to show that i'm not an robot when i post...
i always type "rabbit" and it says that i'm wrong!!!
WHY!?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on August 12, 2016, 04:31:18 PM
For Rabbit... I'm assuming you're talking about Milla. She's a Basset Hound (A Dog), not a rabbit. That's why.

As for those story elements you're hoping for, there's plenty of room to answer questions in future games.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: noah on August 12, 2016, 05:09:26 PM
For Rabbit... I'm assuming you're talking about Milla. She's a Basset Hound (A Dog), not a rabbit. That's why.

As for those story elements you're hoping for, there's plenty of room to answer questions in future games.

yeah, i know, i was just setting the bait to get someone on the trap. ;b

i was kinda of *some emotion* when i saw millas story, but i'm sure the 2 game gonna be great. :D
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Mask on August 12, 2016, 07:05:09 PM
Any word from Strife whether the two standalone games would use Freedom Planet 2's Engine? That could ensure they live up to the same quality as Freedom Planet 1.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Ford on August 13, 2016, 06:32:49 PM
TBH, I think right now I'd be more excited about a boss rush mode than new characters.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on August 16, 2016, 05:26:38 PM
Any word from Strife whether the two standalone games would use Freedom Planet 2's Engine? That could ensure they live up to the same quality as Freedom Planet 1.

If we did them standalone it definitely would.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Mask on August 16, 2016, 07:18:51 PM
Hmm.... doesn't that imply importing the stages and art from FP1 into FP2's engine? If so, that's awesome, that could lead to a potential remake in the future.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on August 16, 2016, 07:34:15 PM
It in fact... does not imply that at all. :)

But there's plenty of thoughts of things to do after FP2 is out the door of course.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on August 16, 2016, 07:55:45 PM
I'd want to see how FP2's engine is (gameplay-wise) before deciding whether or not to make Torque and Spade standalone games using FP2's engine, personally.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Mask on August 16, 2016, 09:55:07 PM
Well, then I'm not sure what that implies. It could mean unique stages not in FP1 will appear, and most of the art won't be imported. That sounds like either a lot of work, or quality/content will have to be cut.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: SuccinctAndPunchy on August 20, 2016, 10:34:02 AM
Well, then I'm not sure what that implies. It could mean unique stages not in FP1 will appear, and most of the art won't be imported. That sounds like either a lot of work, or quality/content will have to be cut.

It implies the new standalone games would be made in the Unity engine created for Freedom Planet 2 and nothing more. Nothing about this implies a porting of art and assets from FP1 although that could very well end up being the case.

I think the confusion here might be that you're expecting the standalone games to be just the chunks of FP1 that we didn't get and not something entirely different. Because from the way it's been explained I get the distinct impression the standalone games are a different kind of beast.

I might be talking out of my ass on that one, mind you, but this is the part where Seraphna or Strife can clarify, hopefully.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Mask on August 20, 2016, 06:28:08 PM
I should hope that's correct, since I also described this. However, mine was more succinct and punchy :lilacderp:.

We're left with the problem of working from near-scratch. Content/quality will have to be cut, or it will be a demanding level of work. If you tried to reconstruct Freedom Planet's... 9(?) stages (counting all Final Dreadnoughts as one), or create that many new ones, that's daunting. There are shortcuts you can take while still making a decent game, but these still reduce quality or content.

I wouldn't assume it to be too much its own beast, as a Schmup of Freedom Planet may not be well received by backers (without first asking them) and FP2's engine seems pointless for a non-FP-like game (unless it's very flexible).
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Iron Curtain on August 21, 2016, 10:58:51 AM
Quote from: Mask
I wouldn't assume it to be too much its own beast, as a Schmup of Freedom Planet may not be well received by backers (without first asking them) and FP2's engine seems pointless for a non-FP-like game (unless it's very flexible).

From what I understand about Unity, it's as flexible as a contortionist who also happens to be a gymnast. So I think this is the best option!
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Mask on August 21, 2016, 12:33:06 PM
Unity is surely flexible. You can make a roguelike, or a first person shooter, or a puzzle game or platformer. Of course, emphasis on you can make these things, they far from make themselves. They are, in fact, grievously indifferent to your efforts, threats, and tearful pleas for mercy; instead lashing you with every possible error, dropping them as traps in your way, but having the gall to tell you about these subterfuges as quickly as they conjure them.

Engines within the engine (and sometimes within those) tend to be more polite, and can be assumed to not frustrate you out of direct malice, but out of personal clumsiness they are very sorry for.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Prototype on August 23, 2016, 05:50:29 AM
Unity is surely flexible. You can make a roguelike, or a first person shooter, or a puzzle game or platformer. Of course, emphasis on you can make these things, they far from make themselves. They are, in fact, grievously indifferent to your efforts, threats, and tearful pleas for mercy; instead lashing you with every possible error, dropping them as traps in your way, but having the gall to tell you about these subterfuges as quickly as they conjure them.

That's just programming in a nutshell though.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on August 23, 2016, 06:13:29 AM
That's just programming in a nutshell though.

Yes, but the difference is you get an engine and powerful editing tool off the get-go - things you would need to hire multiple people to make for you if you went the raw C++/graphical API route. And unlike a lot of other engines, you don't sacrifice flexibility for it.

Best of both worlds, really.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Anubis Grey the Reaper on September 03, 2016, 07:42:51 PM
while im fine with how ever the future holds for the freedom planet franchise, whether there are 2 spin offs or not, i do still have one question that could be addressed.
 
during one of the betas, torque was time attack only for a little bit, until there was an update. if possible, could this return before you decide to make spin offs? like make the stages we already have for the two extra characters be time attack only? i mean... i am ITCHING to find out what is in those sections of aqua tunnel that milla cant get through, even if it is just a change in scenery. and i did have fun playing as torque in time attack too, but i think the beta was removed or something, cause i cant find it anymore.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frisktaker on September 04, 2016, 11:29:35 AM
while im fine with how ever the future holds for the freedom planet franchise, whether there are 2 spin offs or not, i do still have one question that could be addressed.
 
during one of the betas, torque was time attack only for a little bit, until there was an update. if possible, could this return before you decide to make spin offs? like make the stages we already have for the two extra characters be time attack only? i mean... i am ITCHING to find out what is in those sections of aqua tunnel that milla cant get through, even if it is just a change in scenery. and i did have fun playing as torque in time attack too, but i think the beta was removed or something, cause i cant find it anymore.
I second this: if you do make 2 separate games, at least keep the Torque stuff in the game in some capacity. My favorite part is how Shang Mu Academy uses all of his weapons. And it would be a shame to see Horizon Starport never get released. Really, I'd settle for just having Horizon Starport and Shang Mu Academy as a bonus level.
Also, Anubis, do you have it on Steam? If so, right click on Freedom Planet in the Library, go to properties, and the betas tab. Using the dropdown selection thing, select beta - For Testing new builds. That should be it. If you have it on something other than Steam, well, I can't help you.
Also, just so we're clear, the two spin-offs would work like this, correct?

Spade:Metroidvania. Would take place between Freedom Planet and Freedom Planet 2, telling the story of Spade and Dail, possibly giving us other plot that we otherwise wouldn't of gotten. After all, the gap between FP and FP2 is rather large. Also, this would be a good chance to go more into detail about the Red Scarves, and what exactly happened to make Lilac and Carol leave and make Spade consider them traitors. With Spade not being a playable character in FP2, this seems like your only real chance to go into this, if you're ever going to go into it. As for gameplay, I hope you draw inspiration from Sonic Chrono Adventure(What I mean is, SCA, while having that Metroidvania aspect of an open-world with lots of areas that you can come back to and find new stuff, each area was laid out like a Sonic level, with area-specific gimmicks and all. So, if the same could be done with Freedom Planet, that would be amazing.)

Torque:SHMUP/Megaman. Would act as a prequel to Freedom Planet, showcasing the events leading up to Brevon's crashlanding on Avarice. Also, similar to Spade's, this would also be a good chance for some backstory elaboration. For example: Brevon's planet? Why is it in danger? Torque seems to know. So this prequel would be the best(possibly only) time to actually go into this. It'd also be funny to see Torque's first actual encounter with Brevon. As for gameplay, I've said this before, but this game could draw inspiration from Christmas Time Heroes. The mission-based gameplay seems like a good fit for Torque, and I especially like the idea of unlocking things based on your combined score for each mission.(Encouraging going back and replaying old missions to improve your score.) Maybe some kind of shop? Take that formula, add more mission types, some unique bosses(possibly ranging from Brevon's machines/minions to other, unaffiliated space criminals), and maybe find some way to incorporate Torque's weapon system. It would make for a very unique experience that would stand out as it's own thing. Which is important, as there will be people who get this prequel without owning Freedom Planet, and therefore, the prequel(I have nicknamed it 'Freedom Chasers') has to be able to stand on it's own merits. Same goes for Spade's. They don't have to be super long or feature voice-acting or anything.
If you read this, Strife and/or Seraphna, I hope you take my suggestion into consideration, and possibly even reply to it telling me what you think of it. I'm honestly curious about that. And I hope that you're able to reach a decision.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on September 04, 2016, 10:17:56 PM
while im fine with how ever the future holds for the freedom planet franchise, whether there are 2 spin offs or not, i do still have one question that could be addressed.
 
during one of the betas, torque was time attack only for a little bit, until there was an update. if possible, could this return before you decide to make spin offs? like make the stages we already have for the two extra characters be time attack only? i mean... i am ITCHING to find out what is in those sections of aqua tunnel that milla cant get through, even if it is just a change in scenery. and i did have fun playing as torque in time attack too, but i think the beta was removed or something, cause i cant find it anymore.

We're keeping that Beta only as we're not releasing unfinished, bug filled content into our official retail build. (We can't, really. None of our platform sellers will allow that outside Steam.)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Anubis Grey the Reaper on September 05, 2016, 01:19:19 PM
Avarice: of course, i have it on steam, or i wouldn't have mentioned that beta. as to the spinoffs, its up to the devs what they do with it.

Seraphna:hmmm. ok  well, if there are any bug fixes, i bet they will be released at a later date. if you keep it beta only, thats up to ya'll.

thank you two for answering my questions :lilacderp:
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on September 14, 2016, 05:34:12 AM
if there are any bug fixes, i bet they will be released at a later date.

xD

I understand what you're trying to say... but it's so much more fun to take what you're saying quite literally. :P
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Icaro on September 17, 2016, 10:57:17 PM
Hello!

I purchased Freedom Planet like 2 months ago and as a retro games fan let me
say that I love this game!


@Seraphna Allow me to congratulate you for your big effort to answer all complaints/comments about
the annoyed users regarding the DLC topic.

Yesterday I started reading about all this topic and as developer (not a video game developer)
I totally understand your situation, it is very hard to please all the customers.

You mentioned you have made some mistakes (even the biggest videogames companies make mistakes,
Nintendo, Capcom, Sony, Microsoft, Namco, etc, etc.) about the DLC prmosies you made when the
project was a kickstarter, but please try not stressing yourself,
you have done a very good job delivering a brilliant game!

I'm really excited about Freedom Planet 2, I will be happy to buy this game as soon as
the game becomes available. I really want this franchaise to become grater.

When I play this game I remember my time as a little kid playing videogames at the 2D games era and
currently I can say that I love that kind of games.

Please extend my congratulations to Strife and all the staff members that are working hard
in this amazing project.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on September 24, 2016, 06:02:27 PM
I know I'm late to the party on this but I'd like to offer my criticism/advice.

Strife, you screwed up. Your biggest mistake was wasting resources converting the game to chowdren just so you could port it to a console nobody cares about. Now the PC version is affected by this and you no longer have the time and money to fix it, leaving the game in a somewhat broken state. Here's what I think you should do:

Scrap Torque and Spade, don't even bother making spinoff games for these characters.
Keep working on FP2 until it's finished, you've already gotten the ball rolling so no reason to stop it.
Once you're done with FP2, and since you've done irreparable damage to FP1, rebuild FP1 in Unity. This is where you can include Torque and Spade, as well as clean up the story.

I don't care how long it takes, do what you gotta do with FP2, but I think this would be the best way to make amends for your screwups on FP1.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NikoTheGrunt on September 29, 2016, 10:55:09 AM
Greetings. I'm new to this forum and i've been observing this discussion for a bit of a while so i thought i'd share some of my thoughts.

This is just a silly little idea of mine but i'll say it anyway: Some time when FP2 is just about finished or when you think you're able to, why don't you REMAKE Freedom Planet 1 in a better engine? That way you can sort out the issues and include all the DLCs you had promised. You could call it "Freedom Planet Definitive Edition" or something. I'm not saying you should scrap your idea of standalone games, but i've seen other gaming companies doing things such as creating remakes of their older games so i thought this might not be such a bad idea; in fact, i think it's gonna please a lot of fans.

Sure, i have no idea how much it'll cost you in terms of effort, time and moolah, so please let me know if my suggestion is of any use at all, but i'd really appreciate it if put some thought to it and let me know about them thoughts of yours.

Thank you listening. Sorry if i wasted your time. I wish you well.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Iron Curtain on September 29, 2016, 07:10:29 PM
I think NikoTheGrunt is on to something. Perhaps make a "Freedom Planet: Remastered" in Unity with all the DLC within so you wouldn't be shortchanging your fans!
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on September 29, 2016, 11:49:34 PM
I think NikoTheGrunt is on to something. Perhaps make a "Freedom Planet: Remastered" in Unity with all the DLC within so you wouldn't be shortchanging your fans!

I've been thinking about this for a long while. With Freedom Planet 2 being made in Unity, and some spin off games being considered; a remastered Freedom Planet 1 does seem like it's likely to happen (in fact, almost an inevitability).
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on September 30, 2016, 02:37:40 AM
I think NikoTheGrunt is on to something.
Y-yeah, it t-totally wasn't my idea first or anything...
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on September 30, 2016, 02:58:30 AM
Y-yeah, it t-totally wasn't my idea first or anything...

It would certainly remove the strain of making two games at once... provided the majority of backers are okay with this?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on September 30, 2016, 04:03:41 AM
Y-yeah, it t-totally wasn't my idea first or anything...

I think in this situation nobody can claim "first...."

... have you not read the preceding ten pages?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on September 30, 2016, 12:38:44 PM
Strife, you screwed up. Your biggest mistake was wasting resources converting the game to chowdren just so you could port it to a console nobody cares about. Now the PC version is affected by this and you no longer have the time and money to fix it, leaving the game in a somewhat broken state. Here's what I think you should do:

Chowdren is not the reason the game is broken. If you're going to whine about something, at least read up on past posts and understand what that thing is first. This is downright infuriating.

And that WiiU port is part of the reason Freedom Planet 2 didn't need a Kickstarter campaign to fund itself. Yeah, that's definitely a console "nobody cares about". Totally a "waste of resources".

I'm not personally opposed to the idea of the first game being remade on Unity, but the way you went about suggesting it is both insulting and completely ignorant of the game's development. Niko said it much better.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on September 30, 2016, 01:34:15 PM
And that WiiU port is part of the reason Freedom Planet 2 didn't need a Kickstarter campaign to fund itself. Yeah, that's definitely a console "nobody cares about". Totally a "waste of resources".

If I recall correctly, it was #2 on the E-Shop for several months in a row, topped only by Mario Maker. Thems is numbers you don't underestimate.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NikoTheGrunt on September 30, 2016, 01:55:02 PM
Y-yeah, it t-totally wasn't my idea first or anything...
While i do admit you did give me the idea, thought i could put it better than you did, along with a few other things. That way, people would listen to it. No offense.

Niko said it much better.
Once again, my undefeatable power of POLITENESS fails to...fail me. ;D

Also, i'm sure this isn't the right place to talk about this, but i have a burning hot(hot, as in, RED hot! Hot at power of a dozen suns) question about FP2 for quite a while: *deep breather* will Torque be in FP2? If not, will there at least be a playable character that plays just like him(shoot 'em up)? Will Lilac, Carol and Milla be the only playable characters in FP2?

.....yes, i know it's more than just one question. If you refuse to answer it for the right reasons, then i beg you to redirect me(a link, maybe?) to someplace else where i can get on to this subject.

Thank you for listening. Once again, i wish you well.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on September 30, 2016, 03:30:14 PM
I think in this situation nobody can claim "first...."
Of course I'm not the first. I just meant within the span of those 2 posts.

Chowdren is not the reason the game is broken. If you're going to whine about something, at least read up on past posts and understand what that thing is first. This is downright infuriating.
Fair enough. I don't care why it's broken, just that it is.

Quote
And that WiiU port is part of the reason Freedom Planet 2 didn't need a Kickstarter campaign to fund itself. Yeah, that's definitely a console "nobody cares about". Totally a "waste of resources".
Cool story. Doesn't change the fact that it was wrong of GT to start work on a console port, let alone FP2, before polishing the game.

Quote
I'm not personally opposed to the idea of the first game being remade on Unity, but the way you went about suggesting it is both insulting and completely ignorant of the game's development. Niko said it much better.
Quote
While i do admit you did give me the idea, thought i could put it better than you did, along with a few other things. That way, people would listen to it. No offense.
I'm a blunt, harsh person. I'm sorry people are too thin-skinned to take criticism without sugarcoating their ideas with submissiveness.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on September 30, 2016, 03:49:40 PM
I'm a blunt, harsh person. I'm sorry people are too thin-skinned to take criticism without sugarcoating their ideas with submissiveness.

I've yet to see being blunt and harsh work well on any forum. It's just a quirk of the medium I guess.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on September 30, 2016, 04:05:14 PM
I've yet to see being blunt and harsh work well on any forum. It's just a quirk of the medium I guess.
Exactly. People are dicks on the internet and always will be, so it's a reality we have to accept. I'm aware most people aren't as receptive to suggestions when they're presented in a harsh manner, but that's the environment I grew up in and it's pretty much all I know.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on September 30, 2016, 05:08:24 PM
[quote author=Empyrrean .
I'm a blunt, harsh person. I'm sorry people are too thin-skinned to take criticism without sugarcoating their ideas with submissiveness.



You want something "blunt"? There are literally hundreds of talented, intelligent, not-so-thin skinned people who have left these forums for the Red Scarves Discord partly because of "blunt" people, who think the only productive way to get their point across is to call a game dev incompetent or spit venom between the lines, like you just did.


Everyone got tired of attempting to reason with the unreasonable and left. Not even the better half of GalaxyTrail will touch these forums because of how toxic it is around here. It's less the thickness of our skin and more how tried our patience is; this is one of the many things that has split this community apart. I don't have any patience left myself.


It's possible to express your ideas without being a negative drag, but no one is ever convinced otherwise. They keep hammering on their illogical arguments unapologetically until they're either banned or somebody decides to leave the community entirely.


I am so tired of this unjustifiable, negative, angry, unashamed flaming hot garbage on these forums.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on September 30, 2016, 06:04:08 PM
I feel you, devs get backlash no matter what they do, but they need to be able to handle that. Just look at DayZ and how much shit they have flung at them. Bohemia is constantly accused of abandoning the game and running away with the money, but that doesn't stop them from keeping the community updated. People are ignorant and don't understand how complex and time-consuming game development is, and I've vehemently defended Bohemia against these people. I don't think Bohemia is making any mistakes from what I can tell, they're just taking their time because they HAVE to, given how complex DayZ is. In FP's case, I don't think Strife is incompetent, but I do believe he's made some serious mistakes and didn't have his priorities in order. He shouldn't have bothered with Torque and Spade gameplay, and instead polished the main 3 characters and cleaned up the story, so we didn't end up with the incoherent, plothole-ridden mess we have now. He needs to own up to those mistakes (which he has, given this thread) and have the strength to handle the backlash.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NikoTheGrunt on September 30, 2016, 06:06:56 PM
Exactly. People are dicks on the internet and always will be, so it's a reality we have to accept. I'm aware most people aren't as receptive to suggestions when they're presented in a harsh manner, but that's the environment I grew up in and it's pretty much all I know.
In this case i can't help but feel sorry for you. The world is far greater than the hollowed mounds infested with ill-mannered youngsters, and that doesn't exclude the internet. Just because everybody does a thing, doesn't mean you should do that too; Every person in the world should know that.

In many cases when it comes arguments on the internet, i prefer to be the submissive yet nice and reasonable person rather than the loud, blunt, overly defensive yet rude and unpleasant type. That way, i have an easier time getting along with other nice and reasonable people and people won't be afraid to speak to me. I follow a personal code that says "don't be like the people you don't like".

Sure, that doesn't mean there weren't moments where i snapped after my patience and emotional stability fell and ended up throwing a salty comeback riddled with venom and insults(and regretted it later). There are some people out there who are very difficult to tolerate.

But what i mean to say is, you can keep that harsh and blunt attitude of yours as your "defensive mechanism", but the question is: at what cost? You won't be able to "defend" yourself by telling cyber-trogs off without getting down to a languajar similar to theirs and at the same time stooping to a level about as low as theirs and making a huge arse of yourself in the process. No matter how many ill-mannered internet gretchins you tell to "F"-off, there'll always be more, they won't stop coming, and you can't exterminate them all.

When i encounter people of these sorts, i just ignore them; block them. Don't waste my precious time with them. A wise man once said "don't argue with morons or you'll become one".

You're free to carry on being blunt and harsh while i carry on being a gentleman; but trust me when i say this: It pays to be polite.

TL;DR: I highly advise you to be reasonable and polite in the future because it pays to be nice and have strength to ignore and/or tolerate the ill-mannered schmucks of the internet, but that's your choice.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on September 30, 2016, 06:38:55 PM
You're absolutely right, but it depends on what's at stake. If I'm going to be a dick, it's usually purely for my own amusement. I know when and where being polite is necessary, but on a forum for an OC donut steel Sanic fangame, how I conduct myself isn't terribly important.

:^)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Treya on September 30, 2016, 07:42:44 PM
I know when and where being polite is necessary, but on a forum for an OC donut steel Sanic fangame, how I conduct myself isn't terribly important.

:^)

"I don't like the art direction so that gives me the license to be a dick"...yeah, no. You're a troll. That comes from someone finding the art direction questionable.

If that really is a reason though, brb sticking head in fridge.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Weegeesquare on September 30, 2016, 08:26:49 PM
*eating popcorn while watching the argument*

You know, the art direction may be questionable, but I like it. FP2 is looking great too.



You know, there was a person who used to go on these forums named Mew. She looked way too deep into the story and hates FP2 because it doesn't fit her expectations (she expects a Mother 3 tier story, for one), left and now has a bunch of sheep in a group called the NPAN. These sheep barely come here but to lurk, and only listen to Mew's re-worded and twisted versions of the updates, causing them to usually start flaming and being jerks. Those are the blunt ones.

How do I know? I used to be a sheep. A big thing I noticed, however, is most people in that group are the same people who have driven off many from the forums.
 
In other words, the "blunt" ones are in a suppressed, hive-mind group called the N-PAN, told misinformation by a salty storywriter who hates the sequel because they have too high expectations. When it's to the point I left that group because everyone in it was telling me to pretty much fuck off because I was complaining about an unskippable 3 minute ad (I refuse to use adblock because ads usually are harmless), you realize why the fandom is in the state it is.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on September 30, 2016, 10:54:17 PM
I never liked the PAN group either. The things that have leaked out of there and into my social circle were physically painful to read, maybe downright insane.

Chances are they've changed by now and want to be left well enough alone, but I have a severe lack of optimism and don't care to know either way. Live and let live, etc.

I know when and where being polite is necessary, but on a forum for an OC donut steel Sanic fangame, how I conduct myself isn't terribly important.

:^)

The fact that a person could even think of politeness in double standards is somewhat incomprehensible to me. I have to echo Treya on this one: You come off more as a troll than a fan of the game, here to pee in the punch bowl and see what happens.

Even jaded fans around here have conducted themselves better.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on September 30, 2016, 11:25:25 PM
You're absolutely right, but it depends on what's at stake. If I'm going to be a dick, it's usually purely for my own amusement. I know when and where being polite is necessary, but on a forum for an OC donut steel Sanic fangame, how I conduct myself isn't terribly important.

:^)

Actually wrong, it's very important. Please consider our forum rules and general decency. Only warning.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on October 01, 2016, 02:25:10 AM
Actually wrong, it's very important. Please consider our forum rules and general decency. Only warning.
Hey, I've been decent this entire time. The only reason I went off on a tangent is because everyone got on my case about my tone in my first post, which I didn't even mean to be insulting in the first place, just stringent.

Quote
You come off more as a troll than a fan of the game
I can't be both? I like the game and I want to see it improve. I generally only act like a troll when people start getting on my case over something petty.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: WhiteLilyDragon on October 01, 2016, 10:05:29 AM
It's like nobody ever thinks, "Maybe it's me?"

Your definition of decent is questionable. You probably think this is undeserved, but like I said earlier, few of us have little patience left for unnecessarily brash language. Other people before you have collectively pushed most of the community elsewhere doing exactly what you did.

These forums have dealt with enough entitled "lazy/incompetent game developer/GalaxyTrail is greedy/GalaxyTrail's one of the commercial game dev snobs now" conspiracy garbage that we collectively can't take it anymore. Don't expect us regular users to "deal with it"; that attitude is going to ruffle more feathers than encourage healthy conversation.

We're simply not going to roll out the welcome mat for verbally abusive trashfires and obvious trolls. Or at least I won't.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on October 01, 2016, 11:08:02 AM
So, erm...is anybody gonna help me with my question? I mean, i know this isn't the right place for it so if someone could PLEASE at least redirect me to a page where i can discuss the subject, i'd be really grateful. This is actually really important to me, in fact getting REALLY FUDGIN' DESPERATE....*eyes twitching*

ahem...that was quite indecent of me, i apologize.

Torque will not be in FP2, just as Brevon will not be. They're off in space chasing each other around.

Hey, I've been decent this entire time. The only reason I went off on a tangent is because everyone got on my case about my tone in my first post, which I didn't even mean to be insulting in the first place, just stringent.

Your tone went from bad (and presumptuous) to worse. You claim stringent but you also made a huge amount of complaints built off nothing but your own extremely negative feelings.

Have you ever stopped to question yourself? Seeing as you don't have a look into the inner workings of the company, who are you exactly to say what is and is not, financially for the stability of the company, a good call? (And here's the thing, complain all you like as a fan, fact of the matter is we can never finish FP1 or it's DLC if we go bankrupt in the process of doing so.)

Why are you so willing to state that we as a company made poor choices about when to port, or even when a gaming company should start doing so, when what you claim is the exact opposite of how things really work? Look for example, to Shovel Knight. You claim we shouldn't make ports until the game is "polished and complete", yet they ported to pretty much every single console before they even finished the first of their promised DLCs. Where's the uproar?

The reality is... we know what we're doing. We know why we're doing it. And your posts haven't addressed any of that. They can be summarized as your own impatience for content being made manifest into the form of "scolding" where you actually don't have the right or the position to do so.

If you want to leave feedback or advice, do so. But don't be rude to the person you're leaving it too, and the entire community besides it, in the act.

Quote
I can't be both? I like the game and I want to see it improve. I generally only act like a troll when people start getting on my case over something petty.

Seeing as trolling is expressly prohibited on these forums, no, no you cannot.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: NikoTheGrunt on October 01, 2016, 01:24:28 PM
Torque will not be in FP2, just as Brevon will not be. They're off in space chasing each other around.
Oh, that's OK. As long as there'll be at least one playable character that plays in his style of SCHMUPS, i'll be satisfied. Though sadly from what i heard, Lilac, Carol and Milla will be the only playable characters in FP2(no unlockable characters or DLCs? Me sad :(); so unless Milla has developed her powers further at the point of being a potential SCHMUP-er, i'll be pretty disappointed; but i suppose we can't be greedy about things.

Before your reply, i have posted my own topic regarding my burning question; you can find it here:
http://www.galaxytrail.com/forum/index.php/topic,1066.0.html

Either way, i appreciate your attention, madam. I wish you well.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Empyrrean on October 02, 2016, 07:35:53 AM
It's like nobody ever thinks, "Maybe it's me?"

Your definition of decent is questionable. You probably think this is undeserved, but like I said earlier, few of us have little patience left for unnecessarily brash language. Other people before you have collectively pushed most of the community elsewhere doing exactly what you did.

These forums have dealt with enough entitled "lazy/incompetent game developer/GalaxyTrail is greedy/GalaxyTrail's one of the commercial game dev snobs now" conspiracy garbage that we collectively can't take it anymore. Don't expect us regular users to "deal with it"; that attitude is going to ruffle more feathers than encourage healthy conversation.

We're simply not going to roll out the welcome mat for verbally abusive trashfires and obvious trolls. Or at least I won't.
Alright alright, I gotcha. I wasn't aware this community had already faced that much abuse, making everyone on edge.

Your tone went from bad (and presumptuous) to worse. You claim stringent but you also made a huge amount of complaints built off nothing but your own extremely negative feelings.

Have you ever stopped to question yourself? Seeing as you don't have a look into the inner workings of the company, who are you exactly to say what is and is not, financially for the stability of the company, a good call? (And here's the thing, complain all you like as a fan, fact of the matter is we can never finish FP1 or it's DLC if we go bankrupt in the process of doing so.)

Why are you so willing to state that we as a company made poor choices about when to port, or even when a gaming company should start doing so, when what you claim is the exact opposite of how things really work? Look for example, to Shovel Knight. You claim we shouldn't make ports until the game is "polished and complete", yet they ported to pretty much every single console before they even finished the first of their promised DLCs. Where's the uproar?

The reality is... we know what we're doing. We know why we're doing it. And your posts haven't addressed any of that. They can be summarized as your own impatience for content being made manifest into the form of "scolding" where you actually don't have the right or the position to do so.

If you want to leave feedback or advice, do so. But don't be rude to the person you're leaving it too, and the entire community besides it, in the act.
I never claimed to know what's financially beneficial to the company, and I'm pretty sure Strife making this thread is his admission of making mistakes. Maybe you guys know what you're doing now, but perhaps you didn't earlier, and that's totally fine considering lack of experience. We're all human, we make mistakes. And that's what I was referring to in my first post, what I think should have happened, not what should be happening now, because what's done is done and, as a company, you need to keep moving forward with what you have. I haven't played Shovel Knight, but I'd imagine it was complete and bug-free at the time of the console release, whereas FP had a shoddy conversion that broke some mechanics. DLC for either game is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with performance or the coherence of the base story line. Either way, I have infinite patience for whatever you guys have planned. Even if it takes 10 years or more, I would certainly like to see FP1 remade.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on October 02, 2016, 06:21:43 PM
I never claimed to know what's financially beneficial to the company, and I'm pretty sure Strife making this thread is his admission of making mistakes. Maybe you guys know what you're doing now, but perhaps you didn't earlier, and that's totally fine considering lack of experience.

His only admission was choosing to make the first game in an engine which has proven extremely difficult to modify, nothing more, nothing less. He chose to move on rather than sink a ship that  had too many holes in it. What I think you're confused about is that he did NOT choose to abandon FP or leave it full of bugs, he chose not to make the expansion DLC in it's currently planned form because THAT CONTENT was causing most of the bugs that the game is experiencing.

Quote
We're all human, we make mistakes. And that's what I was referring to in my first post, what I think should have happened, not what should be happening now, because what's done is done and, as a company, you need to keep moving forward with what you have.


That we are, however, you also don't need to take this tone, being quite human yourself.

Quote
I haven't played Shovel Knight, but I'd imagine it was complete and bug-free at the time of the console release, whereas FP had a shoddy conversion that broke some mechanics.

Actually the game launched on the Wii U. It had bugs both at launch and subsequently during every single port, which have all received patches.

And honestly, if you think there's a game out there, indie or AAA, that released 100% bug free on any platform, I would love to hear about it.

Quote
DLC for either game is irrelevant because it has nothing to do with performance or the coherence of the base story line. Either way, I have infinite patience for whatever you guys have planned. Even if it takes 10 years or more, I would certainly like to see FP1 remade.

There was very little wrong with the base game when we launched it on the Wii U... so not exactly sure what your point is here.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on October 02, 2016, 07:54:44 PM

You know, there was a person who used to go on these forums named Mew. She looked way too deep into the story and hates FP2 because it doesn't fit her expectations (she expects a Mother 3 tier story, for one), left and now has a bunch of sheep in a group called the NPAN. These sheep barely come here but to lurk, and only listen to Mew's re-worded and twisted versions of the updates, causing them to usually start flaming and being jerks. Those are the blunt ones.

How do I know? I used to be a sheep. A big thing I noticed, however, is most people in that group are the same people who have driven off many from the forums.
 
In other words, the "blunt" ones are in a suppressed, hive-mind group called the N-PAN, told misinformation by a salty storywriter who hates the sequel because they have too high expectations. When it's to the point I left that group because everyone in it was telling me to pretty much fuck off because I was complaining about an unskippable 3 minute ad (I refuse to use adblock because ads usually are harmless), you realize why the fandom is in the state it is.


I never liked the PAN group either. The things that have leaked out of there and into my social circle were physically painful to read, maybe downright insane.

Chances are they've changed by now and want to be left well enough alone, but I have a severe lack of optimism and don't care to know either way. Live and let live, etc.


Off-topic, but I'm surprised that nobody here has even stopped to consider the fact that I, despite being in the PAN group, am a blunt individual that doesn't do any of this stuff. :V
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Ultrablockstar on October 02, 2016, 08:19:55 PM


Off-topic, but I'm surprised that nobody here has even stopped to consider the fact that I, despite being in the PAN group, am a blunt individual that doesn't do any of this stuff. :V
This, though I feel very welcomed by the community! (Sarcasm)

Because singling out groups because of opinions is perfectly acceptable, either way this is indeed off-topic, no need to cause any arguments. (Is obviously mildly offended and NOT directed towards the quote above)
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on October 03, 2016, 12:44:31 AM
And honestly, if you think there's a game out there, indie or AAA, that released 100% bug free on any platform, I would love to hear about it.

Minesweeper?


/failedattempttodefuseconversation
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on October 03, 2016, 01:14:07 AM
Minesweeper?


/failedattempttodefuseconversation


Minesweeper had a single bug, if I recall correctly. Though I believe it was only the Windows version.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Weegeesquare on October 03, 2016, 02:56:53 AM
Minesweeper?


/failedattempttodefuseconversation


I wouldn't count Minesweeper, since it's not sold as a game, but rather a part of the computer software.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on October 03, 2016, 02:10:14 PM
http://www.curtisbright.com/msx/v0/minesweeperbugs.html

Just pointing out, there are bugs even there. :)

No one should try going back that far, that was my childhood.

As for people feeling unwelcome. Maybe consider that you probably started these feelings by constantly trying to exclude everyone else and make them feel unwelcome?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: ElectricSparx on October 03, 2016, 03:10:20 PM
Brb, looking for 3D Space Cadet Pinball bugs.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Creepario on October 03, 2016, 03:25:17 PM

I wouldn't count Minesweeper, since it's not sold as a game, but rather a part of the computer software.
It's more fair to compare games on the same level of FP. Minesweeper is so damn simple.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on October 04, 2016, 10:21:04 PM
Brb, looking for 3D Space Cadet Pinball bugs.
Some short googling later:

https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/oldnewthing/20051201-09/?p=33133/
- on anything before XP the game will just hog all your system resources because it has no FPS limit

http://www.rdrop.com/~half/General/GameTips/space.cadet.html
- your rank doesn't reset in some cases


(Well it seemed like my defuse attempt worked :P)


-----------
From the fade-in-fade-out bulletins on the main forum:
Quote
Freedom Planet's DLC is indefinitely postponed in favor of standalone games for Torque and Spade. Click the line for more information.
"Indefinitely postponed" sounds too much like "will never be finished," which is an odd thing to be saying given that it will eventually be finished in some form or other...
... at least, that's my opinion & I'm useless at marketing :P
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frisktaker on November 27, 2016, 03:28:57 PM
Okay, haven't been here in a while, so... has anything been officially said about whether they're going through with the standalone games idea? Just skimmed through the entire topic. I hope so, because I want them.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on November 28, 2016, 11:11:36 PM
Okay, haven't been here in a while, so... has anything been officially said about whether they're going through with the standalone games idea? Just skimmed through the entire topic. I hope so, because I want them.

As far as I understand things they're postponed to some other undefined and yet-to-be-determined date as FP2 takes priority.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Psychonator17 on June 30, 2017, 04:46:02 PM
The ironic bit is, breaking off the DLC into their own separate games would presumably require a lot more money than just having the DLC alone. Not telling you how to do your job, I just want to make sure you know what you're doing when you get a chance to return to the DLC.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: aidenpons on June 30, 2017, 06:51:11 PM
The ironic bit is, breaking off the DLC into their own separate games would presumably require a lot more money than just having the DLC alone.

Except that then you can sell those individual games for more than you could sell a DLC, thus recouping any lost money. :P
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eps on July 02, 2017, 07:01:28 AM
The ironic bit is, breaking off the DLC into their own separate games would presumably require a lot more money than just having the DLC alone...

Yeah. That's why they're not doing it until after FP2. It was a business decision.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Seraphna on July 25, 2017, 04:37:56 AM
It's actually not a shocking amount of money because the whole point of the plan is to use the engine and assets we're already working on in FP2.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Frisktaker on July 25, 2017, 12:52:26 PM
When you say assets, what do you mean? Like, level art and music? Or do you refer to the gameplay and engine?
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Eltro on August 01, 2017, 12:33:09 AM
When you say assets, what do you mean? Like, level art and music? Or do you refer to the gameplay and engine?

Probably the level sprites and engine. Maybe the music. I'm not sure if the gameplay would get carried over (seeing as Torque and Spade were vastly different from the other three characters).
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Anubis Grey the Reaper on August 20, 2017, 06:50:43 PM
It's actually not a shocking amount of money because the whole point of the plan is to use the engine and assets we're already working on in FP2.

i like the idea. something to look forward to.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: CAT_ATACK on November 02, 2017, 12:45:19 AM
overall I'm fine with the direction everyone seems to have gone with, though preferably I hope you guys reconsider making torques part seperate as he felt like he was almost finished. not only that, he at least followed the same linnear path as the others narrative wise unlike spade.
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: AlexiSonicKST on November 04, 2017, 07:07:14 PM
What interests me the most, for now, about the Torque's and Spade's story, is how they could potentially answer to some questions that Freedom Planet left us with.

The fact that they follow a very different route and have different skills/motivations would make the game very different, so to me it's a good idea to have a separate game for them, if it's the better financial solution.

Heck, at this point, if it becomes a DLC for Freedom Planet 2, I would still be okay.  :lilac:
Title: Re: State of the DLC
Post by: Ashes_Darkmare on November 08, 2017, 01:01:22 PM
if Freedom Planet games getting ported on another Console, I hope its Xbox one :D but beside that first time been in here for a long time... whatever you do with the DLC's have them appear in anyway shape or form don't care if it ends up being a separate game expansion or what I'm fine with this.